The-launch-of-Our-Knowledge-Our-Way

The launch of Our Knowledge, Our Way_ Indigenous-led best practice guidelines


[Image appears of a photo of an Aboriginal painting across the bottom of the screen depicting many indigenous people behind an indigenous pattern and text appears: Welcome to the launch of Our Knowledge Our Way in caring for Country, Indigenous-led approaches to strengthening and sharing our knowledge for land and sea management, Best Practice Guidelines from Australian experiences, 30 July 2020]

Louisa Warren: Good morning and good afternoon everyone. Welcome to the launch of the Our Knowledge our Way in Caring for Country Guidelines. My name is Louisa Warren. My family are from Bardoo Island in the Torres Strait and I’m the Executive Manager of CSIRO’s Office of Indigenous Engagement and I have the great pleasure to be moderating today’s launch. I am joining you today from Brisbane, the lands of the Turrbal, Yagura and Jagera peoples. On behalf of the panellists we acknowledge and we pay respects to all traditional custodians of the lands from which we are joining the launch today and the many lands from which you, our audience, are joining us too. 

The key aim of the Our Knowledge Our Way Guidelines is to enable indigenous led approaches to strengthening and sharing indigenous knowledge for land and sea management. Building respect and understanding of indigenous knowledge is an essential step towards this goal and we pay our respects to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Elders and Custodians, past, present and emerging, who are working to keep their knowledge strong.

[Image continues to show the same slide on the screen]

I am pleased to announce that we have received over 1800 registrations and it’s absolutely incredible to see the level of support and interest in the development of these Guidelines. The format for today is that we will show a film that will introduce the Our Knowledge Our Way Guidelines. The film will play for 17 minutes and features each of our today ten panellists. Following the film will be a Q & A with the panellists who will be available to answer your questions after the film.

[Image changes to show a new slide showing an Aboriginal painting and instructions on how to participate in the webinar below the text heading: How to participate in this webinar]

Now, there are two ways that you can join in the discussion today. On the right hand side of your screen you are looking at there is a question mark icon. This is where you should enter questions you would like to ask of the panellists and we will do our very best to get to your questions. Underneath the question mark is a Chat function. It looks like a speech bubble. This is where you can chat with other members of the audience. On the line we also have a technical team that can support you with any questions or issues you may have. You can also ask anything of a technical nature in the public Chat function and one of our team members will respond to your question.

Please note that we are recording today’s webinar and it will be made available from the Our Knowledge Our Way webpage. If we are unable to get to your questions today we will also post answers to selected audience here. 

[Image changes to show Louisa Woodward talking on the main screen and panel members can be seen listening in the participant pane at the bottom of the screen]

As one partner in the development of the Guidelines, CSIRO is very honoured to be hosting this launch today. However, the strength of these Guidelines lies in the highly collaborative process that was undertaken to create them. This includes contributions from over 100 indigenous authors, case studies providers and reviewers, with support from key partners including the North Australian Indigenous Land and Sea Management Alliance, the Australian Government’s National Environmental Science Programme, and its North Australian Environmental Resources Hub, and the Australian Committee for IUCA. 

Now, that’s enough from me for the moment. Please join us now in the screening of the Our Knowledge Our Way Guidelines. While we are watching the film you can also submit your questions in preparation for our Q & A with our panel members when we return. Thank you.

[Image changes to show a black screen and text appears: Warning, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander viewers are warned that the following program may contain images and voices of deceased persons]

[Image changes to show a dry landscape and the camera pans over the landscape]

David Hudson: Welcome to Country. 
[Image changes to show an aerial view looking down on a red dirt dry landscape]
Country is more than just land.
[Images move through to show water trickling over rocks, a bee collecting pollen from a flower, the sun shining on a rock face, and then the camera zooms in on the rocks]
It is the water, the plants, the animals. It is our ancestors. It is us. 
[Image changes to show a hand holding a leaf containing seeds and then the image changes to show a crocodile on a river bank opening its mouth]
Country provides for us and demands respect.
[Image changes to show an aerial view of a waterfall and the camera pans over a pool in the rocks]
As Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, we have built our knowledge systems by learning from Country over thousands of generations. 
[Image changes to show the sun shining through gum trees and then the camera zooms in on the sun shining through leaves]
We’ve passed down our knowledge of Country according to strict laws which keep our culture strong and nurture our relationship with Country. We’d like to share this knowledge with you.
[Image changes to show waves crashing on to a rocky shore]
In the past, sharing of our knowledge with others hasn’t always ended well. Mistakes have been made, and lessons have been learnt. 
[Camera pans over a forest and Aboriginal art work appears at the bottom of screen and text appears: Our Knowledge Our Way in caring for Country, Indigenous-led approaches to strengthening and sharing our knowledge for land and sea management]
We’ve come together to identify ways forward. This is our knowledge, our way.
[Music plays and the image changes to show a rocky patch of ground and then the Our Knowledge, Our Way poster appears in the foreground]
The Our Knowledge Our Way Guidelines have been produced to support learning, by our partners and ourselves, about good ways of strengthening and working with indigenous knowledge to look after Country.
[Images move through to show a male leaning on the open car bonnet, the male’s face, and then school students running through bushland]
Indigenous Australians are significant land owners, managers and custodians, and interest in our indigenous culture systems is growing. 
[Images move through to show school students holding hands, a male showing a picture on his mobile phone, and then a habitat timeline project stuck on a school wall]
Researchers and policy makers tasked with solving Australia’s complex environmental challenges are looking to alternate methods to manage the nation’s land and seascapes. 
[Images move through to show a male using a stick to point out ant holes in the red sand, a close view of the male’s face, and then the ants moving along the ground]
 As a result, more people are seeking engagement with indigenous communities, to gain valuable insights from our ancient understanding of Country.
[Images move through to show a car on a road, a view from the driver’s side-view mirror to the car behind, three people standing by a lake, a male pointing, and then water rippling in a lake]
However, outsiders do not always know how to engage appropriately with us, which can lead to poor outcomes for all partners, and in some cases, devastating impacts on our people. 
[Images move through to show a side view of Dr Linda Payi talking, a front on view of Dr Payi talking to the camera, and then the camera zooms in on Dr Payi talking and text appears: Dr Linda Payi Ford, Senior Researcher, Charles Darwin University]
Dr. Linda Payi Ford: People will come in and say, “This is what we want. Can you give that to us?”, and then go away. And the people are sort of left behind thinking, “We never saw them again, and we didn't get any money, or we didn't see anything that was published.” And so that leaves indigenous people mistrusting.
[Image changes to show a Bardi Jawi Oorany Rangers logo on a sleeve, a photo of three rangers, and then Dr Emma Woodward talking to the camera and text appears: Dr Emma Woodward, Research Scientist, CSIRO]
Dr. Emma Woodward: Indigenous land and sea management has received more support in recent years. Partners including the Federal Government have recognized the benefit and potential in Indigenous land and sea managers working on Country. 
[Image changes to show a close view of Emma talking to the camera]
But, in some respects, the support or protocols or the ways of doing haven't kept up with the increase in interest and investment in land and sea management.
[Images move through of the Northern Land Council meeting together, a group of females in discussion around a table, two females in conversation, and then a female giving a presentation]
In 2017, an Indigenous-majority Project Steering Group resolved that the lessons learnt from past engagements with academics, government agencies, industry and NGOs should be collated into a set of guidelines.
[Images move through to show a group of people listening to a presentation, various people in discussion with the group, and then a female presenter talking to the group]
The Steering Group determined the Guidelines should draw on initiatives, partnerships and programs that demonstrate best practice experiences of working with indigenous knowledge on Country.
[Image changes to show Ricky Archer talking to the camera and then camera zooms in on a side view of Ricky talking to the camera and text appears: Ricky Archer, CEO, North Australian Indigenous Land and Sea Management Alliance (NAILSMA)] 
Ricky Archer: It was always our strongest intention that that these Guidelines were to be established to better value and to strengthen indigenous knowledge holders and the systems that need to be in place to protect traditional knowledge.
[Images move through to show three males in discussion while looking at an iPad, a male walking, three males walking through the bush, and then Ricky talking]
So that when third parties or researchers or other institutions undertake work with Indigenous practitioners or land and sea managers there's a guiding set of principles that have a good benchmark in terms of what protocols should be followed because a lot of these places have well-developed protocols and we've needed an opportunity to put them in a platform that is going to be readily accessed by the research community, by the broader community.
[Image changes to show a CSIRO staff member talking to people at a show stand]
Emma Woodward: The Guidelines took about two years to compile. 

[Image change to show two males filling in paperwork at a show stand]

The Guidelines are based on 23 case studies. 

[Image changes to show a map of Australia with white dots appearing showing where the case studies are being conducted and then the image changes to show Emma Woodward talking and text appears: Case Studies]

These came forward after a call for case studies across Australia. These came from individuals, they came from ranger groups, from corporations and from Indigenous enterprises who are really at the forefront of Indigenous land and sea management. 

[Camera zooms in on a close view of Emma talking]

And there was so much we could learn from them. 

[Images move through to show people making notes while standing in the bush, people in discussion at the beach, a female holding shells, and a photo of a group of people and text appears: Medicinal plants of the Mbabaram people, Wirlomin Noongar Language and Stories, As the seasons change we think of the old people, the ancestors, we think of gathering maypal, Heed the Call of Dunggirr, Koala]

They formed the foundation of the Guidelines and they're instrumental in determining clear and practical ways in which researchers, government agencies, NGOs and any other people who want to partner with Indigenous people, with their knowledge and on Country, can do it the right way, according to Indigenous people and what they want.

[Images move through to show a group of people sitting around a fire, a male holding a piece of twine, and then a male talking to a group of people and text appears: Yanama budyari gumada: walking with good spirit at Yarramundi, Language and land: Arabama on-Country language camps]

David Hudson: The case studies highlight the critical role of Country in sustaining Indigenous language, culture and knowledge and illustrate how knowledge sharing is governed by traditional laws. 
[Image changes to show a young male and an older male looking down and working on something and then the image changes to show an older male showing a girl something in the sand]
Respect for Country and culture is a key foundation for building successful partnerships with Traditional Owners.
[Image changes to show a close view of Dr. Anne Poelina talking to the camera]
Dr. Anne Poelina: First of all, we are from Country, we are with Country, and we are of Country. 
[Image shows Dr. Poelina talking to the camera and then camera pans over Barry Hunter standing in bushland and text appears: Dr Anne Poelina, Chair, Martuwarra Fitzroy River Council]
So from that perspective, what it does is it connects us even before we are born to a sense of place and to a life project such as working and living with Country.
[Images move through to show Barry looking up at the tree tops, Barry talking to the camera and text appears: Barry Hunter, Managing Director, Djarnda Enterprises]
Barry Hunter: When you go into certain parts of Country and you might feel the hair stand up on your back, that's that Country telling you that there's something special there. 
[Image changes to show Barry moving his hands across the trunk of a gum tree and then the camera zooms in on Barry touching grass]
And Country talks in different ways. It talks through the indicators that show in the form of animals and plants.
[Images move through to show Barry talking to the camera, a small grass fire, and then a major bush fire]
 And it talks in real dramatic ways as well, through fire, you know if the Country hasn't been managed properly and you end up with big bad fires. 
[Music plays and images move through to show a rear view of students walking through bushland and text appears: Walking Country with Waanyi Garawa]
David Hudson: History shows that access to County is vital in keeping indigenous knowledge systems strong.
[Images move through to show tops of trees and a rock face, a close view of a spider making a web, and then students walking through bushland]
To understand Country – and how to best manage it – time must be spent on Country, listening to Country and learning from Country. 
[Images move through to show an aerial view of a river running through bushland, an aerial view of a gorge, salt bush scrub, and then a close view of ants moving over leaves]
Due to Australia's varied environments, Indigenous groups developed highly-diverse knowledge systems, each in tune with the unique nature of their traditional lands and waters. 
[Images move through to show a female teaching a group of students, camera zooms in on a female talking, and then student taking pictures on an iPad and text appears: Science Pathways for Indigenous communities]
Strong local governance and cultural protocols within Indigenous groups dictate who has the authority to share what information, when, and with whom.
[Image changes to show an aerial view of people walking through some scrub and then the image changes to show Anne talking to the camera]
Dr. Anne Poelina: And I think one of the big things that Indigenous knowledge does is, it takes knowledge and frames it from the betterment of ‘we’ instead of ‘me.’ 
[Camera zooms out on Anne sitting in front of a rock face and talking to the camera]
So, it's a collective knowledge system that's there to support, one, the caretaking of our Commons, but two, the caretaking of knowledge, so that we can better use it to deal with complexity.
[Images move through to show Assoc Prof Brad Moggridge talking to the camera and text appears: Assoc Prof Bradley Moggridge, Kamilaroi Water Scientist, University of Canberra]
Assoc Prof Brad Moggridge: Indigenous knowledge is so important to fixing some of the issues that we see in in modern Australia. 
[Image changes to show a side view of Prof Moggridge talking to the camera]
We know this Country, we speak this Country, we sing this Country, we dance it, and it's a key part of who we are. 
[Image changes to show a male wearing traditional dress performing a smoking ceremony, a group of people listening to a presentation, and then a group photo with some in traditional dress and text appears: Joint management speaking through Tebrakunna Country, Tasmania]
And in their relationship with Country, indigenous people are best placed to give advice because having that value of Country and water and the knowledge that comes with that, and the laws that protect that, is key to the way we fix the problem.
[Images move through to show three males digging holes with a  post hole digger, a close view of the post hole digger, two males erecting a sign, three males fencing, and a male on the back of a ute]
David Hudson: In recent times, State and Federal governments have recognised the full social, cultural and economic benefits of indigenous land and sea management to the broader community and have supported Indigenous rangers to monitor and improve the health of their traditional Country.
[Images move through to show two landcruisers travelling along the beachfront and on to a beach, sea birds flying into the air, a crab on the sand, and then three men walking towards the water]
Today, land and sea rangers work across the breadth of Australia to protect its rich biodiversity from new and emerging threats.
[Images move through to show a worm on a hand, Peter Cochrane talking to the camera, and a close side view of Peter talking to the camera and text appears: Peter Cochrane, Executive Member, Australian Committee for IUCN]
Peter Cochrane: Indigenous people now actively manage a very large proportion of Australia. So, nearly half of our conservation estate in Australia, so national parks and reserves etc, nearly half of that is actually Aboriginal owned and managed, believe it or not. Most people don't know that.
[Images move through to show two male rangers driving through bushland in a jeep type vehicle and the camera zooms in on one of the males]
Graham Atkinson: The Rangers are an important resource. 
[Images move through to show water running through salt bushland, Graham Atkinson talking to the camera, and then a side view of Graham talking to the camera and text appears: Graham Atkinson, Chair, Dhelkunya Dja Land Management Board]
They are involved in restoring waterways, caring for land through revegetation, and also restoring habitats for native animals.
[Image changes to show a kangaroo sniffing a joey and then the image changes to show the sun shining through trees]
Assoc Prof Brad Moggridge: They are doing this as part of their customary obligations to care for Country. 
[Images move through to show four rangers in a boat, a close view of one of the male rangers smiling at the camera, and then dolphins swimming through water]
It’s built into them, as Indigenous people, that they are happier and healthier caring for Country. 
[Images move through to show a side view of Prof Moggridge talking, Prof Moggridge talking to the camera, and then two males walking around a creek making notes on a clip board and mobile phone]
There are growing opportunities, but we just need to make sure that they are supported and they have the tools, like these Guidelines, and the opportunities to care for Country and bring in their traditional knowledge, work with the western scientists and make opportunities where Country is being cared for in the right way.
[Image shows two males in discussion at the edge of a creek, dry cracked earth, a dry creek bed, a cat walking though the bush, a smoke stack, and then palm trees blowing in the wind]
David Hudson: Rangers draw on Western science to inform their land and sea management when tackling new challenges arising from centuries of environmental degradation, brought on by large scale clearing, introduced species, pollution and a changing climate. 
[Image changes to show four male rangers next to a boat taking samples from soft wet sand on a beach and the camera zooms in on a bucket they are using] 
This has seen traditional owners partnering with researchers and pooling their knowledge to solve complex contemporary problems. 
[Image changes to show a group of females in discussion around a digital map and the image shows one of the females using a pointer to move the map on the screen]
This process of bringing different knowledges and approaches together, and finding common ground between perspectives, is known as "sharing and weaving knowledge."
[Images move through to show a close side view of Dr Woodward talking, Dr Woodward talking to the camera, and then a group of people looking at different parts of an exhibit]
Dr Emma Woodward: Sharing and weaving knowledge systems is really important, particularly in Indigenous land and sea management, perhaps where land and sea Rangers want to draw on Western science approaches, including ecological modelling, to be able to demonstrate the impact they're having on Country. 
[Camera pans over a model of an ecological map of the Fitzroy River Catchment and text appears: Showing and Sharing knowledge in the Fitzroy River Catchment, WA]
Many of the projects that were described in the case studies in the Guidelines refer to the impact and the importance of weaving knowledge.
[Image changes to show Ricky talking to the camera and then the camera zooms in on Ricky talking to the camera]
Ricky Archer: I think one of the best examples of a platform that mixes a cultural knowledge system and western knowledge and more academic frameworks is Savanna Burning Projects. 
[Images move through to show an aerial view of cars travelling down a dirt road, two male rangers setting fire to scrub, an aerial view of the burning area, and then camera zooms in on the male ranger]
The methodology is closely linked to, or derived from, a cultural burning practice, and it's just been put through the lens of an academic framework to be able to measure things like carbon output and the different things that the Government like to see in terms of carbon farming. 
[Images move through to show a side view of Ricky talking to the camera, a raging bush fire, a fire along a roadside, a photo of firefighters in uniform, and a male putting out a small fire and text appears: Dhelkunya Wi, healing fire] 
Also, we know there's a lot happening in this space at the moment around the safety of the community in terms of what nasty bushfires do, and that traditional fire management is one of those tools that have recently been given some exposure and has shown a good example of a Traditional practice that can be used in a contemporary method.
[Image changes to show a photo of six males holding up posters and then camera zooms in on the Masigalgal Seasonal Calendar poster and text appears: Torres Strait Traditional Ecological Knowledge]
Torres Webb: The Torres Strait Traditional Ecological Knowledge Project is a great project to really highlight our traditional ecological knowledge. 
[Images move through to show a group of students listening to a teacher, a group photo of students and teachers holding the Masigalgal calendar, and then Torres Webb talking and text appears: Torres Webb, Cultural Capability Advisor, CSIRO]
Teaching to the students all these scientific concepts and you can see that passion in the kids, they want to go to school because it's interesting, and it's fun, it's connected to our local community and local context.
[Images move through of two males going down a river in a dinghy, plants growing along the river bank and then fish swimming under the water]
Dr Anne Poelina: Over here, one of the things that's been happening is, the Elders have been working with scientists to validate that the Fitzroy River, or the Martuwarra, is a living being and has a right to live and flow. 
[Images move through to show a bird leaving the water, Dr Poelina talking to the camera, and then the camera zooms in on Dr Poelina talking to the camera]
So, these signs, this knowledge, this wisdom, is showing us what is changing in our world today. How can we use our indigenous knowledge to better manage these systems, for not only now but for future generations to come? 
[Images move through to show a group of students sitting outside listening to a teacher, a group of people looking up at a tree, and then two different group photos and text appears: Karen indigenous people host sharing across knowledge systems for pollinator conservation in Hin Lad Nai, Thailand, Aboriginal fire knowledge informing international burning regimes]
David Hudson: The benefits of knowledge sharing are also seen at the international level. Traditional owners are increasingly engaging with global networks that promote indigenous-led knowledge practices and their application to global environmental issues.
[Images move through to show a side view of Prof Moggridge talking and then the image changes to show Prof Moggridge sitting on a rock and talking to the camera]
Assoc Prof Brad Moggridge: To be part of international networks is a great opportunity for us as one of the oldest living cultures on the planet. They may have ideas that you haven't thought of, and I think sharing at that network level is a key part of being indigenous, because we love sharing. And I think it's something that at, an international scale, we can, we can learn from, but also, being an old culture, we can actually give a lot to as well.
[Image changes to show a group of people standing on the side of a hill and then the image changes to show a male and a female making hand prints on trees with paint]
David Hudson: The Our Knowledge Our Way Guidelines offer valuable insights for non-indigenous researchers and policy-makers to consider before partnering with traditional owners and engaging with their knowledge. 
[Image changes to show a male talking to a group of people while standing next to a small fire out in the bushland and then image changes to show an aerial view of the group of people in the bush]
While every indigenous group has their own unique set of protocols, there are common principles that should be observed. It’s the responsibility of outsiders to find out what local protocols they must follow. 
[Image changes to show Prof Michael Douglas talking to the camera and text appears: Prof Michael Douglas, Director, NESP Northern Australia Environmental Resources Hub]
Prof Michael Douglas: As someone who leads research programs, these Guidelines are fantastic. They provide really practical advice based on Aboriginal people's experiences of what a good research or policy development partnership looks like. 
[Camera zooms in on a side view of Prof Douglas talking and then the image changes to show Prof Douglas talking to the camera]
People generally want to do the right thing, but they’re often not sure the best ways of going about it. One of the most common mistakes is not leaving enough time for genuine engagement. 
[Image changes to show two people walking with arms around each other and text appears: Listening, slowing down, attending to Gumbaynggirr Country]
Aboriginal people really value relationships more than just outcomes. 
[Image changes to show a group photo of people standing on a staircase and then image changes to show two males looking at a petri dish in a laboratory and text appears: Weaving indigenous knowledge and science: the KISSP approach, Medicinal plants of the Mbabaram people]
And so, allowing enough time to build those relationships and establish trust is going to lead to a much better outcome for research and policy development.
[Image changes to show Graham talking to the camera and then camera zooms in to show a side view of Graham talking]
Graham Atkinson: Researchers need to be very careful that they don't come across as experts, or know-alls, and that they do open their minds, particularly to indigenous knowledge systems that are expressed by Aboriginal people.
[Image changes to show Dr Poelina talking to the camera and then camera zooms in to show Dr Poelina talking to the camera]
Dr Anne Poelina: The other thing to acknowledge is, there's a real important sense of ensuring data sovereignty. That knowledge is given to you in good faith to use, but it actually belongs to someone. And so, in terms of that, you have to treat that data with respect, you have to make sure the person you are taking that knowledge from is informed about how you're going to use it. Most importantly, if there are going to be multiple ways that you're going to use that data.
[Camera zooms in and out on Dr Payi talking to the camera]
Dr Linda Payi Ford: And that, if I'm going to publish anything out of a research project that involves indigenous people, I also make sure that they're going to be co-authors on those publications. And to remunerate indigenous people for that knowledge is really, really important. So, it's about negotiating, as well, those terms. So, it's got to be very clear and very transparent.
[Images move through to show a group of people standing out in bushland, two females and two children weaving, a group of females sitting together talking, and then a male talking to a group]
David Hudson: While highlighting the importance of respect, trust and informed consent, the Guidelines ultimately demonstrate that the simple act of listening and supporting traditional owners to lead innovation is the foundation of great practice.
[Camera zooms in and out to show Torres talking to the camera]
Torres Webb: I think that the Guidelines will really benefit our indigenous communities, because it really put us in the driver's seat for how we want to see our land and sea managed, and provide a real framework, and a handbook for scientists and other land managers, in ways that best work with us, but also as a tool to bridge reconciliation between indigenous and non-indigenous peoples.
[Camera pans over dry bushland and text appears: www.csiro.au/ourknowledgeourway]
David Hudson: The Our Knowledge Our Way Guidelines are now freely available to download. They are a major step towards empowering traditional owners and co-developing sustainable solutions in caring for Country.
[Music plays and the image changes to show an animal footprint in sand and text appears: Narrated by David Hudson, Featuring – Ricky Archer, Graham Atkinson, Peter Cochrane, Prof Michael Douglas, Dr Linda Payi Ford, Barry Hunter, Dr Anne Poelina, Assoc Prof Bradley Moggridge, Torres Webb, Dr Emma Woodward]

[Image changes to show a close view of a rock formation and text appears: Produced by Mintox Media with Pia Harkness, Emma Woodward, Additional Footage, Feral Films, Global Headquarters, Lumapixel, Mulong]

[Image changes to show a close view of tree bark and text appears: Archival Footage, CSIRO, Department of Biodiversity, Conservation and Attractions – Parks and Wildlife Service, Feral Films, Jaralji Films – David Nixon and Fiona Walsh, Kuranda Media, Mobile Language Team, University of Adelaide, Mulong, NAILSMA, NESP, Northern Land Council]

[Image changes to show a close view of yellow wattle flowers and text appears: Archival Photographs, MJ Anders, Jitirapa Bumroongchai, Hilary Burden, Ariadne Gorring, David Hancock, Ro Hill, Kimberley Land Council, Chris de La Rosa, Melinda McLean, Mobile Language Team, Tropical Indigenous Ethnobotany Centre, Gerry Turpin, Wirlomin Noongar Language and Stories, Yanama budyari gumada, Yandarra, Artwork – Sharing the knowledge for caring for our Land Copyright Emma Burchill, 2020]

[Image changes to show a close view of pink feathers and sponsors’ logos and text appears: The Our Knowledge Our Way Guidelines Are Supported By CSIRO, NAILSMA, IUCN, Australian Government, National Environmental Science Programme, Northern Australia Environmental Resources Hub]

[Image changes to show a close view of a sea urchin and text appears: www.csiro.au/ourknowledgeourway]

[Image changes to show a new slide showing a list of the ten panellists and their positions below a text heading: Panellists]

Louisa Warren: Welcome back everyone. The first time I watched the film I was absolutely moved by the collective wisdom, knowledge and passion that each one of our panellists have in caring for Country. And I’m sure you would all agree with me that we are honoured that they could all join us today for the launch of these very important Guidelines. Joining us on our panel today we have: Dr Anne Poelina, is a Nyikina Wadu Traditional Owner from the Kimberley Region in Western Australia and is the chair of the Martuwarra Fitzroy River Council and Lead Co-author of Chapter 1 of the Guidelines.

We have Torres Webb, a proud Torres Strait Islander from Erub Island in the Eastern Torres Strait. He is also CSIRO’s Cultural Capability Advisor and Lead Co-author of Chapter 1 of the Guidelines. Barry Hunter is a Djabugay man from Far North Queensland. He’s also Director of Djarnda Enterprises and is Lead Author of Chapter 2 of the Guidelines. Graham Atkinson is a Dja Wurrung and Yorta Yorta man from Victoria. He is the chair of the Djelkunya Dja Management Board and Lead Author of Chapter 3 of the Guidelines. 

[Image continues to show the same slide on the screen]

We also have Associate Professor Bradley Moggridge, is a Kamilaroi Water Scientist, based at University of Canberra and is Lead Author of Chapter 4 of the Guidelines. Dr Linda Payi Ford is a Rak Marranunggu woman from the Northern Territory. Linda is a Senior Researcher at Charles Darwin University’s Northern Institute and is Lead Co-author of Chapter 5 of the Guidelines. We also have Ricky Archer. He’s a Djungan man from the Western Tablelands Region of North Queensland. He is the Chief Executive Officer of the North Australian Indigenous Land and Sea Management Alliance, a cool partner in the Our Knowledge Our Way Guidelines project.

Professor Michael Douglas is the Leader of the North Australian Environmental Resources Hub, of the Australian Government’s National Environmental Science Programme. We also have Peter Cochrane, a member of the Executive Committee of the Australian Committee for the IUCN. And of course, Dr Emma Woodward is a Research Scientist here at CSIRO and Lead Editor of the Guidelines. Can you please give us a warm welcome to our panel members on the line with me today by welcoming them in the Chat function?

[Image changes to show Louisa talking to the camera and some of the participants can be seen in the Participant bar at the bottom of the screen]

Just a reminder, you can engage with our panel by submitting your questions via the right hand side of the screen by using the question mark icon. If you have a specific question for a panel member please state the name of the panel member so I can direct this to them. OK. So, the first question we have coming through today is for Anne. OK Anne, “Why is it important that these Guidelines inform western science engagement with indigenous peoples?”. Over to you.

[Image changes to show a close view of Anne talking to the camera and panellists can be seen in the Participant bar at the bottom of the screen]

Dr Anne Poelina: I think the first thing to recognise is that when you’re talking about traditional ecological knowledge, what we’re doing is we’re framing indigenous science. So, what we’re saying is that this is a body of knowledge that’s been generated from indigenous ancient wisdom which has relevance in modernity. And so, we’re making it very clear that this indigenous science or these traditional ecological knowledge Guidelines is a way to bring in indigenous knowledge and sharing and practice into dealing with complexity. 

We’ve got multiple forms of western science and we need to be able to bring indigenous knowledges, indigenous science into being able to deal with complexity. So, that’s why I think the Guidelines are very important. This is ancient wisdom that has relevance in modernity and unless we’re factoring in traditional ecological knowledge we will be able, we will miss the opportunity to fully understand the systems that we are exploring and developing. Thank you.

[Image changes to show Louisa talking to the camera again and panellists can be seen in the Participant bar at the bottom of the screen]

Louisa Warren: Fantastic and that’s a great response Anne and I think here at CSIRO it’s very important, like we will see these Guidelines as an important tool for our agency as well in terms of building our capability here for all of our scientists. So, thank you for that. I’m now going to hand over to Graham. We know Victoria are making progress in recognising the rights of Aboriginal people. As Chair of the Djelkunya Dja Land Management Board you’ve really led the way in putting cultural management front and centre in south east Australia. Graham can you tell us a bit more why you did this?

[Image changes to show Graham talking to the camera and panellists can be seen in the Participant bar at the bottom of the screen]

Graham Atkinson: The, look the joint management plan that we undertook with the support of CSIRO, who were the leaders in the consortium, the reason our joint management plan was undertaken was we signed a historic recognition and set up an agreement with the State Government in 2013 and that comprised a very comprehensive package of benefits and agreements. The joint management plan that we undertook covered the six appointed lands, these are the national parks that were transferred to the Dja Dja Wurrung people in Victoria and we then also had to produce a joint management plan on how we would jointly manage those parks, those six national parks. By the way they were also transferred over as Aboriginal title which is also an important part of our joint management plan.

Look, our joint management plan is really as much about the land as it is about people. We cannot separate ourselves from the land now or into the future. What Dja Dja Warrung people bring to joint management is an understanding of Country that encompasses multifaceted layers of cultural, spiritual, social and emotional values overlaying the physical health of Country. But the plan was completed in 20… we launched the plan in 20, 2018 and we’re now in the implementation phase of that important plan.

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Louisa Warren: Thank you Graham and it’s really great for us to hear from different perspectives around the country, around some really good case studies and it’s fantastic to have you on the line today as well joining us here. So, thank you. I will now head up, back up north to, to Barry who’s up in Cairns. So, Barry just a question that’s come in here. What changes have you seen in indigenous land management over the last couple of decades?

[Image changes to show Barry Hunter talking to the camera on the main screen and Louisa and other panellists can be seen in the Participant bar at the bottom of the screen]

Barry Hunter: Yeah, thanks for that question Louisa. It’s fair to say that from that video and from the Guidelines that there’s a range of activities that rangers are involved in on the ground and I guess it’s that maturity. When I first started in this game as a, as a young ranger myself there was a lot of whipper snipping and cleaning up around communities and that was the type of work but I guess it’s that maturity that’s showing now up in the range of land management activities. But importantly we’ll start to see indigenous led research emerging which I guess is the key to not just empowerment, but, but having around science bases, indigenous science bases being the formation of science and land management and taking that forward.

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Louisa Warren: Thank you. And it’s great to see that you could join us from Cairns today as well. So, thank you Barry. There’s a lot of questions coming in from our, from our many people that are joining us online. So, we’re going to try and do our best to try and get to them. So, the next question here is, I’m actually going to throw to, to Linda up in Darwin, I believe you’re up in Darwin, Linda. So, why is it important to follow cultural protocols when engaging with indigenous knowledges?

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Dr Linda Payi Ford: The cultural protocols are the foundations of the way that we function on our Country and widely engage with that Country, our Country. It’s really being respectful and transparent in your negotiation process with either neighbouring clan groups, in family groups, or with external partners. This is really important because everybody needs to be able to understand where each person is positioned in those negotiations. And as you’ve heard from Barry, there’s been lots of projects that have been happening and they’re starting to mature now. The protocols that we practice as Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island people have been used for millennia. It’s only recently that we’ve started to use non-indigenous people. So, it’s a process of learning and teaching each other and forging a partnership that’s got real outcomes for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

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Louisa Warren: Thanks, thanks Linda. And I think what the Guidelines also really highlight for everybody on the line is that each one of our communities we all have different cultural protocol and it’s really important that we connect and work with each community to find out, you know, the relative cultural protocols for the community that you work in. And, so thank you for sharing that. I’m now going to hand over to Peter. Peter, you mentioned in the film that over half of Australia’s protected area is managed by indigenous peoples. Why is indigenous knowledges and approaches so important to that management?

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Peter Cochrane: Thanks Louisa. I think all Australians need to know, respect and remember that indigenous knowledge and management of land and sea has developed and been tested for tens of thousands of years. It’s experiential knowledge that’s been handed down from generation to generation and it comes from a deep connection to and dependency on lands and waters where they live. So, it’s fundamental to proper management of Country by indigenous people but it’s also vital for all land and sea country managers to be able to draw on this knowledge, respected of course, and following the protocols outlined in this web publication.

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Louisa Warren: Fantastic, thank you Peter. And likewise I’d now like to throw over to Emma to also share her thoughts. Our people are here from Perth. So every, each one of our panel members are linking in from all different parts of the country today. So, it’s quite a, it’s probably the largest WebEx that we’ve ever hosted with external members. So, over now to Emma who’s on the other side of the country. So, Emma, you know, in this new way, we often hear this term that’s now come in about and we really want to support it, is about indigenous led research and management. What is the role of science in this?

[Image changes to show Emma Woodward talking to the camera on the main screen and Louisa and other panellists can be seen in the Participant bar at the bottom of the screen]

Emma Woodward: Yeah, thanks Louisa. So, supporting indigenous leadership and really allowing the room for indigenous people to pose science questions is new. It’s a new thing and in the case of the indigenous led Guidelines, the research question didn’t come from us, it came from our indigenous partners. And as scientists we very much played a supporting role. Like, still an important role in managing the engagement and synthesizing those key messages for over 100 contributors but you know, there is very much a larger science question here about, you know, how do we undertake science enquiry that engages with multiple knowledge systems? You know, what are our institutional arrangements that enable the meaningful and equitable opportunities that indigenous people not only have the opportunity to pose research questions but they can drive a science agenda that answers directly to their needs. 

And there’s a, there’s a core group of us researchers. You know, we’re networked around the world. We’re working with our indigenous partners to push the boundaries in terms of theory and practice in this area. You know, we’re developing and testing models of indigenous engagement. We’re exploring and trying new co-design principles. You know, we’re working together to really identify, you know, what are the synergies between western and indigenous knowledge systems that might allow us to work towards more sustainable solutions at local, regional and national scales. 

[Image continues to show Emma talking to the camera and panellists can be seen in the Participant bar at the bottom of the screen]

And I guess just finally, you know, there’s a key role for science but also for scientists really to critically reflect on how we’ve conducted our research to date on Country and really bring our own awareness to the power and privilege that we bring to any engagement as a result of our shared history and also that need to invest in relationship building, to build trust with our partners and to always seek, you know, mutually beneficial outcomes when engaging with our indigenous partners because that’s critical in order for us to support and strengthen indigenous led research and management. Thanks Louisa.

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Louisa Warren: Thanks Emma and I, I’m just going to highlight, you know, the key point that you made there about relationships and trust, you know, it’s so important that we look at building sustainable and respectful relationships through this process. So, thank you for highlighting that and it’s a key message that we often relay to our, also, many of our non-indigenous scientists and researchers in our organisation here. I would now like to bring in Michael into the conversation. There’s a question here for you Michael. Why is it important for mainstream Australia to support indigenous people’s knowledge in land and sea management?

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Michael Douglas: Well, I think that we’re all acutely aware at the moment of the huge challenges facing the Australian environment and to respond to these challenges in the best possible way I think we need to access the best available information and that means making use of all the knowledge sources and all knowledge systems and particularly indigenous knowledge, it’s fundamentally different to scientific knowledge that comes from other sources. 

It’s been forged through millennia and through deep understanding of Country and relations and connections to Country and often it’s quite complementary to other knowledge systems. So, too often in the past I think indigenous knowledge has been overlooked when we’re trying to respond to environmental challenges but I think these Guidelines really help to make it clear that there are really practical benefits for all Australians in making use of indigenous knowledge and in supporting, recognising and valuing indigenous knowledge. So, it’s in everybody’s interests to do this.

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Louisa Warren: One hundred percent agree with you there Michael so thank you for sharing that. Well I’d now like to bring in Brad, all the way down in Canberra, into the conversation. As you know we’ve got many panellists on the line so it’s really great to sort of have everybody making the time to, to participate today. So, Brad the question for you here is why are Australian indigenous peoples and their knowledge well placed to lead and provide benefits and solutions to national and international issues?

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Assoc Prof Bradley Moggridge: Hi Louisa, hi everyone. Yeah great question. I suppose we, we have this long association and deep knowledge of this dry old landscape and we’re, you know, our ancestors and we’re still, we’re still adapting today, have adapted to many climates and topographies and scenarios. We’re even adapting to policies which is challenging at times. But we’re well placed to provide solutions that will benefit all Australians, you know, just like the rangers do across the landscape today, you know they make this place look deadly and they love what they do and they’re happier and healthier when they do it. And I suppose our connection is based on this long association, you know, thousands of generations of observation of this, as I mentioned, dry, old landscape. And that is pure science I believe. You know, we were doing, our old people were doing science before science was even a thing. 

So, I suppose that knowledge that we can provide and share, we love sharing too actually, that knowledge we can provide and share can provide solutions because, you know, so many of the previous panellists have mentioned the opportunities to build this, you know, and I think we need to, sort of, change the way we think about our knowledge as well and, you know, the culture of science and also management needs to change as well because it’s not myth and legend or mumbo jumbo or folk lore. It’s actually as I mentioned a long series of observations that have tested and retested and replicated solutions for this environment. So, I think we’re in, we’re well placed and I think internationally we can provide, because we have an old knowledge system we can provide answers at an international scale but also we can also learn from other, other indigenous nations that, that want to share with us as well. Thanks.

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Louisa Warren: Thank you, thank you Brad. And we’re starting to see a lot of that more, you know, as Aboriginal and Torres Strait people, you know, we want to share in, we want to work with other indigenous peoples across the country and First Nations communities and we’re seeing a lot of that cross cultural sharing as well. So, thank you for highlighting that. Now, I’m going to go all the way back up to, to Cairns we’re we’ve got Torres Webb sitting up there. So Torres a question for you. What implications might the Guidelines have on reconciliation in Australia?

[Image changes to show Torres Webb talking to the camera and Louisa and the panellists can be seen in the Participant bar at the bottom of the screen]

Torres Webb: Yeah, thanks Louisa and good afternoon to everyone. Reconciliation, we think of reconciliation, it’s really about understanding, understanding the partners and understanding where we come from. I really see the Guidelines as a real opportunity to really showcase this is who we are as Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and our knowledge and our way. 

We know mistakes have happened in the past and there has been some mistrust but I really do see the Guidelines here that we have as a real way to move forward around building, re-building that trust and those relationships, really sitting and listening, looking at ways to see how we can best work together rather than doing to or for us but how do we work together to really see the best because we all want the best for our Country. Another point that I’d like to raise is education. I’d like to see how we can continue to grow and utilise education as a real key tool to really embed some of our knowledges and our ways even into the school curriculum.

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Louisa Warren: Thanks Torres and for those of us, for those that can see behind Torres and me, in his background we’ve also got the, the beautiful artwork that was commissioned by Emma Burchill which you will now see is the basis for the Our Knowledge Our Way, you know, artwork. So, I just wanted to highlight and also thank Emma for her, her strong contribution towards the research project as well and the Guidelines. So, just want to highlight, you know, how important our artwork is as well. So, thank you and thanks for sharing that Torres. OK, so we have a lot of questions coming through. So bear with me, I’m going to multi-task a number of screens here at the moment. So, the next question I’m going to throw to, to Ricky now. Ricky, the Guidelines highlight the importance of indigenous networks and peer to peer learning, why is this so important?

[Image changes to show Ricky Archer talking to the camera and Louisa and the panellists can be seen listening in the Participant bar at the bottom of the screen]

Ricky Archer: Thanks for the question. I think it’s been raised in some of the earlier answers in terms of how important networking and trusted relationships are. I think regardless of the outputs or the end goals you need to have strong trusted relationships at the forefront to any work incorporating these two knowledge systems we’re working about. So, I, I think just to show how important it is. Without having that trusted relationship or a level of strong engagement, proper engagement up front, everything else is harder after that. And we’ve proven that through, you know, how we’ve captured the different case studies around the country. I think one of the common factors in all of them is having good, good trusted relationships and partnerships before even getting into the, how specific the content and output is.

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Louisa Warren: Thanks Ricky and there’s another question that’s just come in that I’d like to just stay with you for a little bit more. So, the question is, “How can researchers show respect for indigenous knowledge as well as just recognising it?”. 

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Ricky Archer: I think there’s a few different parts of that question that we could, we could rip into, not rip into in a negative way. I think there, there are different, different definitions as to different classes of respect and what value can be given to, to cultural knowledge, traditional knowledge systems from a research perspective. I think the easiest way to go into it is to acknowledge that there’s a system that’s been developed over thousands and thousands of years before even coming to the table to discuss potential alignment or overlap or engagement. So, having that recognition of just how well developed a cultural knowledge framework is, at the starting point before even starting those negotiations. It just places a bit more power and importance back on the skills and capacity that those indigenous traditional knowledge holders and practitioners have. So, I think having that recognition to start with before you even go into that body of work is a good starting point.

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Louisa Warren: Great, thank, thank you Ricky and some of the questions that are coming through are similar of nature so we’ll try and group some of them. But the next question that I’ve got here I’m going to throw to Graham if that’s OK? Graham, is the Caring for Country approach predominantly for natural resource management or are they also applicable in highly developed, e.g. urban areas? Graham are you there?

Graham Atkinson: Yes.

Louisa Warren: Fantastic thank you.

Graham Atkinson: Are we there? 

Louisa Warren: Yeah.
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Graham Atkinson: Well, look it is primarily for the national parks and reserves that we are responsible for managing now and in joint management sense. But there are no, there are no reasons why these same principles, that is, looking after Country, looking after landscape can be applied in a more urban setting. So, yeah I would encourage traditional owner groups that, particularly down here in south eastern Australia, it’s really relevant because colonisation as you know swept through here and the tide of history really had an impact on south eastern Australia. But there are many traditional owner groups that enjoy both the On Country joint management opportunities. But they also are mindful of the more urban settings which I think these principles would be useful for applying as well.

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Louisa Warren: Thank you so much for responding to that one. And I imagine each one of our panellists today may get an influx of enquiries after today’s session. So, it’s really great to have a breadth of knowledge and experience on the line with us today. So, I’ve got another question here that is for Michael. How do we make the funding agencies and bureaucratic processes aware that it takes time to build relationships with indigenous communities and that the funding cycles need to enable and resource this process, without time to build relationships and ultimately trust and respect we will not change the existing paradigm? Great question.
[Image changes to show Michael Douglas talking to the camera and Louisa and other panellists can be seen in the Participant bar at the bottom of the screen]

Michael Douglas: And it’s a really important issue. I must say that over time I’ve seen the funders really change their attitudes to this. And I think just even from the National Environmental Science Programme, if I think about the iterations of that over the last 15 years, at the start it was quite a push from researchers to really try and make the funders appreciate and understand the need for time and flexibility to respond to community needs and aspirations. But I look at the way that the next round of the programme is being framed and it’s completely the opposite. 

It gives a great priority to this and it makes a, and it’s actually insisting on researchers allocating a certain amount of funding to making sure that they do the job well. At the moment some of these funding agencies like the National Environmental Science Program insists that you have an indigenous collaboration strategy in place and that you’re evaluated on that. So, in some areas we’ve seen real changes and it’s been a really positive thing for researchers and also for people, indigenous people that we’re collaborating with.

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Louisa Warren: Thank you. And, you know, just adding to that Michael, I think, you know, some of us, we, we need to push back as well when some of these applications and grants don’t really align to our values as an agency. And you know we’ve, we’ve had many conversations like this in our own office as well here with some of our own scientists. So, you know, thank you for answering that and you know we can continue to work together. So, thank you. 

I’m going to bring Anne back into the conversation now who we had from at the start. So, we’ve got a question for you here, “I’m very respectful of indigenous around the world and I want to do my research in the right way, how can I build trust and familiarity with communities here in Australia when I have a PhD timeframe?”. So, another, another, I guess challenge around time frame and not enough funding. “What is a practical solution? Should I have to move with my young family close to the communities?”.

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Dr Anne Poelina: Am I on? Yeah, no it’s a very interesting question. I think, you know, one of the things is this is a space that indigenous people have been engaged in from a long time in terms of projects on the ground, projects being ready, but most importantly supporting young and emerging researchers doing PhDs, doing these sorts of things. So, I think the big message I would like to put to the table is that, and this is what I’m saying to researchers as well, that they come with an already organised topic. The topic needs to be co-designed with the people that you’re working with. They need to be very much part of the process of developing up the scope of your work. They come in as equal partners. They may also be able to leverage support in terms of  once you’ve got a process of legitimate engagement then there’s an opportunity for them to work in collaboration with you and legitimise your process of study and engagement. 

So, this is the point I’m making, is that don’t come with a pre-conceived idea of what you want to do. Ensure that it’s grounded in what the benefit to the indigenous community will bring. It needs to be mutually rewarding but I think it’s a great journey and I would be just saying that most researchers I know, knowledges wise, once they start to engage with indigenous people it becomes a life project.

 So, what I’m saying don’t give up on, OK, the end goal is the PhD. This is a lifelong journey that once you start to engage people, particularly indigenous people and in research your life will be transformed because this is all about relationship, relationship with people, relationship with Country, relationship with living waters, and that we are all working together to create greater humanity and knowledge systems that can grow a better way for us all to engage in the world. So, thank you for the question.

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Louisa Warren: Thank you. What a beautiful response. Thank you for that. We’ve still got a bit more time so I’m going to try and get through a few more questions. So, the next question is for Brad. “How can indigenous knowledge break barriers and start to be recognised and influence globally?”

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Assoc Prof Bradley Moggridge: Yeah, that’s a good question. How long have we got? 

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Louisa Warren: You have about four minutes. 

[Image changes to show Brad talking to the camera and Louisa and the panellists can be seen in the Participant bar at the bottom of the screen]

Assoc Prof Bradley Moggridge: Wow, that’s a big one. Yeah, look I think we need to be voicing our, we need to be that voice, you know, and we need to be entering that space when these opportunities arise. We need to tell our stories and our science our way. I think that’s when there’s more, well, let’s say credible evidence, let’s say, of our knowledge making a difference than, you know, obviously we’ll, the culture of our understanding, the culture of science will change to start accepting, you know, look one day I’d love to see our old people as Fellows of the Academy of Science, you know, because of their knowledge of Country and their knowledge of what they do and what they know. And I think, you know, that’s, that’s probably in the, in the, well let’s not be too, I think it’s in our lifetime, yeah, I reckon it’s in our lifetime. 

We’ve got a shot at it and you know documents like this will, will pave a way for people to understand that knowledge isn’t just about storytelling. It’s not just about, you know, fables and folk lore. It’s actually, this is real, you know, this is lived experience that’s been passed down from generation to generation and science will one day hopefully accept that and obviously that will influence policy and the way we manage Country and, you know, the world is watching.

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Louisa Warren: Thank you Brad and you know we are here, we haven’t, you know, we’re still here so it’s about time I think, you know, our voices are recognised and also acknowledged as well. So, so thank you for that, that response. OK, we’ve probably got maybe time to get through two more questions. So, the next question is for Linda. “Traditional ecological knowledge is tied to language. How is indigenous language vitality being supported?”.

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Dr Linda Payi Ford: [Indigenous language being spoken] Aboriginal, English, Creole and I can hear lots of other languages but not necessarily speak them. So it’s really important to have people that know, whether it’s research work there is a Government agency, whether it’s nature speaks to the Country and that speaks for the Country. So, for Aboriginal people, when I go back On Country my mother used to tell me that when we would speak our language and we would name our Country the Country would get very happy about that and we would see that in the way that the Country responds to us being there. 

Our presence is so important and when we call out to our Ancestors when we get to particular places we are letting them know that we are the, that we are visiting and they in turn demonstrate to us that they are either accepting of that or not. So, it’s really important to be able to read the Country for the signs and to be taught that if you are a visitor. And often the people that are custodians of those places they will introduce you to the Country and through that [Indistinct 53.53].

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Louisa Warren: Linda, are you there? We’re just having a bit of difficulty with your audio but thank you, thank you for responding to that and highlighting, I guess, the importance of language as well. And Torres did you want to add anything to that from a, I guess, from a Torres Strait Island perspective as well around languages before we, we’ve got five more minutes and we’ve got to wrap up shortly.

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Torres Webb: Yeah [Indigenous language being spoken] Good afternoon to you all. Language is so, so deeply important to us. It’s our sense of identity. It’s our sense of belonging when we share our songs and stories and language on our Country. It really pulls and brings out the spirit from the land and the sea that connects to us and our old people appreciate that. When we go out onto Country onto sacred sites we must always talk to our Country, let them know that we are here, and to provide us with a safe journey on our passageway. Language is very, very important.

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Louisa Warren: Fantastic, thanks Torres. So, I might wrap up with one more question and thank you everyone for, for staying with us on the line. So, Ricky just the last question please with you. “These Guidelines are a starting point, they’re a signpost on the road and where do you think that road is leading?” 

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Ricky Archer: Yes, good question thanks. Good analogy in that so I’ll use some more analogies in my response. Regardless of where the road is leading what’s important is who’s driving the vehicle. Indigenous land and sea management practitioners, we have the expertise and the capacity to build our own road. We have the ability to determine where our final destination may be. We also have the ability to assist with directions at times. 

As part of that we also have the ability to assist people that may be lost on that road. I think ultimately we need our hands on the steering wheel and we need to closely manage some of the back seat drivers. I think in terms of where the final road is there’s a great opportunity we’ve got for this tool to influence and to inform mainstream programmes that, you know, Government may implement into the future. This is just a starting point. Our Knowledge Our Way Guidelines are new but cultural knowledge is really, really old. So, based on that it’s in our hands, just give us a steering wheel.

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Louisa Warren: Thanks Ricky. And that’s, I think, that’s a beautiful way for us to wrap up our Q & A today. And look I know there have been a number of questions that have come through the Chat function and we will respond to your questions out of session. So, I would like to thank all of our panellists for the participation in the webinar today and for giving up their time to share their knowledge with us. It was an absolute honour to be sharing the platform with you all today and you know, it’s an absolute privilege and I just want to express my thanks to you all. 

These Guidelines would not have been possible without your contribution and we thank you again for your willingness to share your knowledge with everyone. To the many people who have joined us today, and to those who have asked questions, as I mentioned, you can download the Guidelines. So, we’ll just get the instructions up here on the screen so you can see where you’re able to access the Guidelines from in terms of the links.

[Image changes to show a new slide showing logos and text: Thank you for your support… Our Knowledge Our Way contributors – Authors, case study providers, reviewers and partners, 1800 audience members, panellists and support team, To access the document, film, Q&A and other resources, www.csiro.au/ourknowledgeourway]

So, you can download the Guidelines for free from the Our Knowledge Our Way website and the address should be coming up now on your screen. As I mentioned there were many questions that we didn’t get to. Selected questions and answers will be available from our Q & A page at the Our Knowledge Our Way website early next week and there are a tonne of questions that have come through but unfortunately we just haven’t had the time to get through every single one of them today. The recording of this webinar and the video that was shown earlier will also be available for viewing on the website. 

So, in your own way could you please thank our esteemed panellists one last time by thanking them in the Chat function. A round of applause for those of us that are on the line. And, so just wanted to express our deep gratitude to everyone that’s joined us. Finally before we leave we have one important ask from each and every one of you. We encourage you all to share the Guidelines with your colleagues, your workplaces and your community. Collectively we can all work together to improve our own practices to strengthen and respect the unbroken connection and the traditional knowledges that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have in caring for Country. Thank you for attending the launch of Our Knowledge Our Way. Thank you and enjoy the rest of your day. Goodbye.