AloxiTec

Jessica: Tonight, we've got myself moderating guests. We've got Jinghua who is our team leader and we have Hugo and Michelle joining us, who are mentors. Please, feel free at any stage to pop questions in for us. We've got those coming through. We'll be asking them as the hour goes on. Firstly, I'm going to just pass through the team and get them to quickly introduce themselves. Then, we'll jump into some of the questions. So, Jinghua, through to you first, did you want to give us a bit of information about yourself as the team lead?

Jinghua Fang: Hello, everyone. I'm Jinghua from AloxiTec. I finished my PhD from the University of Melbourne. After that, I get to scholarship. Two scholarships, actually. It's OCE and the DECRA fellowship. When I was at UTS I made this material. Basically, I joined the ON Prime Program and after several interviews, came out with the idea and started doing it in the lab and eventually, got this material. Now, I think I'm really patenting this product and set up the company AloxiTec and I hope it continues on really focus on this material and hope to commercialize it. Thank you.

Jessica: [laughs] Thanks, Jinghua. That's great. Michelle, you're next up. I'll just throw it to you. Just as a mentor, just to give us a little bit of background.

Michelle Xu: Hi, everyone. My name's Michelle. I was ex-CSIRO staff . I have a background in food technology and food science, so I worked with the scientist team and also with different scale of food company in regarding to do the product innovation and also basic scientific research. I'm really passionate about enabling the research impact, so I think I get a lot more involvement in the business development and the commercialization in the past few years. Now, I jumped into the private industry but I still really looking forward to help all the science innovators to grow their business and realize their fantastic impact.

Jessica: That's fantastic. Thanks, Michelle. Hugo, I'll just throw it over to you. As a mentor, just give us a little bit of background.

Hugo LeMessurier: Hi, everyone. I'm Hugo. I'm a mentor with the ON Program. I have spent probably the last 20 years working in start-ups and starting up my own businesses. I've got a background in biotechnology and food industry technology start-ups. I also am an Angel I nvestor and invest in a number of early-stage businesses. So, I've been working with ON and great founders like Jinghua for a number of years now because I just like to see our technology get into the market. My role is to really help them with getting commercialization skills brought in through and help the founders to actually realize their goals.

Jessica: Fantastic. Thanks, Hugo. AloxiTec is a material that will extend the shelf life of fresh produce and I'm going to throw it to you, Jinghua. So, how does the packaging work and what's it made off to start us off?

Jinghua: Okay. So, this material is just a sheet. It's very easy to use. You just put these sheets close to your fruits, then it can preserve your fresh produce longer. Basically, the mechanism is turning the microsphere around these fruits and at the same times, to convert this ethylene. So, in that case, you can protect your fruits without any other energy, for example, like refrigeration or any additional chemicals. My test in the lab was full of bananas. We have preserved the banana for 48 days without refrigeration and the chemical contamination. Yes. After 48 days, I ate it and the taste was good and sweet.

Jessica: [laughs] Fantastic.

Jinghua: Also, I collaborated with Andrew Smith from William Smith Apple Shed and that he sent me the apples in May, so we did the test on the apples and that apple was preserved more than 83 days. Also, for the cherry, we have a very short time of preservation, but it's still 4 days and we compare that to some commercial products , it's still very good.

Jessica: Yes. Very good. So, how long does it last? How long does the product last?

Jinghua: This basically is very low-cost material. Once you preserve, like in the test in the lab around the 90 days, after 90 days, the color will change. It will save the energy from this preserved apple and without preserving and after preserving. After that, you need a way-- We wanted to recycle and then we can give you the new sheets.

Jessica: Okay. How is it going to help food waste?

Jinghua: Yes, in Australia more than 30% of food waste is come from producers and the reason is because the appearance or during the transportation because of in the storage or there is produce without consume and already wasted. Some really is because they even have the fridge sometimes doesn't work or the chemicals don't work or because there is transportation. All this food waste we can help to assist, to improve. For example, like cherry on the delivery road, temperature should be less than five degrees. Above the five degrees, every hour, the cherry will lost a one day shelf life. So, what we do is we can-- using our material, then, whatever the fridge temperature is, it can make this cherry last longer and longer, which is to save your produce, then minimize the food waste. That's how it will work.

Jessica: Yes. Can people use it in their homes or is it specifically for industry?

Jinghua: Well, I want to say our product is really impact the whole value chain, from the growers to the end user. Though we now have a simple sheet, but we're also going to design and develop this more beautiful product. For example, fruit bowl with this material inside then [crosstalk] will be easier to use.

Jessica: So that will be more for the home is what you're saying?

Jinghua: Yes.

Jessica: Yes? You said right through for industry as well?

Jinghua: Yes. For the industry, at the moment, our first-generation product is just a sheet, a simple sheet. We can use this one as our first-generation product and the industry, all the farmer growers, they can directly use.

Jessica: Okay. Yes. What's your path to market and timelines and milestones along the way there?

Jinghua: Oh, okay. So, as I mentioned, this product in the lab, we have a very good test result. To commercialize this product, our next 15 months goal is first to realize through the commercial trial and this successful commercial trial, we're leading this really, put this product into the market. Of course, one important thing is the regulatory or like food safety testing. Even I eat the banana, I preserved the apples, everything is very fine, but we need to get certification and this are all in these 15 months. We have devised a strategy on the food safety testing and this regulatory strategy and approval and this-- and after this, the trial finished. Once these two things are done, then that is in a common say that we'll start to commercializing and we start to form these growers or even go to these wholesalers.

Jessica: Okay. I got other few questions coming in here which is fantastic. One here is asking whether your technology is based on ethylene scrubbing or creating a modified atmosphere to reduce respiration? Would you like to give us a little bit of rundown?

Jinghua: Yes. Actually, where I have discussion with Hugo as we come out, this actually is the both. This is both function is one copy is as a ethylene scrubber and at the same time, it can help with the micro atmosphere around the fruits. That's why to achieve this preserve the fruit at the room temperature without any fridge and other chemicals.

Jessica: Okay. Hugo, did you want to-- is there anything you'd like to add in there or--? [silence]

Hugo: I think it's a very good question. Whoever has asked that question understands a little bit about this market [crosstalk] . [laughs] I think that's exactly where this product fits, is that Jinghua's technology is able to do both scrub the ethylene and also modify the atmosphere. Many of the trials we're looking at doing over the next sort of 15 months, we'll be seeing how the technology can be used outside of the lab in the real world with real growers. There's a number of trials planned in cherries and avocados and a range of different produce, which I think will give us that real-world experience and understanding, which is what is really necessary and it will also help to generate the confidence with the growers in the product.

Jessica: Thanks, Hugo. Okay. We've got a few more that have come in here. Oh, this one's a good one. How does the cost of this product compare to existing packaging? Jinghua?

Jinghua: A very good question, I think. Yes. This is how to compare with other competitor. Our product basically is really cost-effective, even in a lab. We can produce this material with a very cheap price, maybe more than half than this current, this competitor's price, to be honest.

Jessica: Okay. Fantastic. We've got another one here. What is the status of the IP?

Jinghua: We have filed the provisional patent and now is under the PCT. I really appreciated the University of Technology, Sydney, letting me to go ahead. They're very supporting and they have given me this chance to try to do commercialize this, understand the IP to me up to the AloxiTec.

Jessica: Okay. Thank you. Okay. We've got a few more coming in here. How does the technology measure with regards to shelf life? Is it microbial shelf life or quality shelf life? It's a bit of a two-part question there. Did you want me to ask that one again, Jinghua, or are you all right to jump in?

Jinghua: Or maybe can you say it again?

Jessica: Yes. I've got, "How does the technology measure with regards to shelf life? Is it microbial shelf life or quality shelf life?"

Jinghua: At the moment, it's more like the quality shelf life.

Jessica: That's what I thought you were saying, yes, earlier. Rather than microbial, it's about quality?

Jinghua: Yes, this is microbial. Well, our next target, we're thinking about how to add the function anti-microbial and anti-fungus, but it's a very good question, but now, it's really the quality of the fruit, to keep this quality.

Jessica: You're talking quality at the moment?

Jinghua: Yes.

Jessica: I think you said you ate some of it to--?

Jinghua: Yes. From my understanding is when I do the test, I look at this apples' appearance or the chlorine field, what is the level of the apples or bananas. Yes. So, from my understanding, it's really related to the quality. Yes. Maybe Hugo can give you more extra about this, what the difference.

Jessica: Hugo, are you able to jump in here at all or not?

Jinghua: Oh. [chuckles]

Jessica: That's okay. Oh, I've got another good one. [chuckles] Somebody's commented, "This is awesome." How easy is this material to incorporate into existing packaging materials and what is the cost like on that?

Jinghua: Yes. This is very good questions. For our first-generation product, basically it's just a sheet. We just align these sheets into the packaging box. That's it. I talked to one distributor and he is happy like the connector with this packing company. Before they give the box to the farmers, they just help with loading these sheets into this packaging, this box.

Jessica: Okay. I think Hugo has joined us again. You might have missed out on the question we were going to ask you. Somebody asked about how does the technology measure with regards to shelf life. Is it microbial shelf life or quality shelf life? Jinghua was just mentioning that you might want to add something in there, just throwing to you if you would like to?

Hugo: All right. Sorry about that.

Jessica: Yes. Right.

Hugo: I [crosstalk] for a second there. Look, it's a really interesting question and it probably is the subject of more research. Microbial spoilage is a core reason for the reason why you do have spoilage of food at one level. On the other side, ethylene is also, or other types of hormones are also another reason because they advance ripening quickly. I guess the way that technology works when it controls the atmosphere is it also has an effect on the microbial load as well. I think they're both linked, but whether we have really clear understanding of how that works in relation to this technology right now would be challenging to say, but I think that there is a link between both of them. That is part of the reason why the product works the way it does in terms of maintaining the quality of produce. I think that would be fair, wouldn't it, Jinghua?

Jinghua: Yes. Yes. I think you explained it much better than me for this side.

Jessica: [chuckles] That was good, Hugo. Yes. Very good. I think you answered the question quite well. I've got another question come in here. Are there limitations on the environment products on which this will work?

Jinghua: This is a very good question again. [chuckles] Yes. From my side, unless the experiment-- I think Hugo will answer this question. [laughs]

Jessica: Hugo, do you see any limitations for products on which this will work or-- like any environments that-- any limitations there?

Hugo: I guess when it comes to food and the reasons why food spoils, that can mean many different reasons. Different types of microbes can have an effect. There can be advances in ripening, again, through ethylene and hormones like that. Each produce is a little bit different and reacts differently and is affected by different external factors. Often, in these types of products, you really need to test the technology against each individual type of product. Most of the customers or the users of this product will be asking for that sort of information, so one of the things to do is to try and broadly test it against a range of different produce types. I guess that's where, at the moment, the status is that we've tested against bananas, and apples, and cherries. We're looking at doing more work in larger trials on those sorts of produce as well as heading into new types of produce, avocados, and other areas. I guess there are key high-value produce where you may have longer transit times, where this type of technology could extend the shelf life, but I guess one of the things to always remember in the world of food and of preservation and spoilage, there are many different technologies that a producer or a grower will use to try and extend the shelf life, or create an environment where the produce lasts for longer. You'll often find that many technologies are used, two or three different types, in order to extend it. In some instances, it may be enough to be just this type of technology or, in some instances, you may need to mix it up.

Jessica: Thanks, Hugo. Yes. That was great. I've got another question just come in here. I guess it was a little bit-- We've oriented it around whether people were going to be using it in their homes or whether it was for industry. We've got somebody who says, "Would you be engaging with fruit and veg shops and those kind of retailers, I guess?" Would that be one of your people that you'd be aiming at, Jinghua?

Jinghua: Yes. Actually, yes, they are all-- First, the target is in a commercial trial with the farmers and also with the distributors, but together, there's some value of feedback. We need to engage more with retailers and from there, they can understand the customers or what they wanted or what they don't wanted. With this feedback, it's good for us to go more other wholesalers and propagate it in a more market. I hope this answers the question.

Jessica: It does. Yes. Yes. It's kind of related to a previous one to a degree. Another good one I've got here is can you customize it? What's your customization? You've obviously got sheets at the moment. Is there any--?

Jinghua: Yes. The material itself can coping on any substrate. Also, we can make because this is a flexible and a lightweight material. It can be stand-alone by itself. It also can be adhered with any other packaging material. Also, you can carve any shape, any size, which is good so what the container you use. So, it's very flexible.

Jessica: Perfect. Sounds good. At the moment, have you done any further development down that route or is it just the shapes that you've had-- like been testing at the moment?

Jinghua: The first-generation target is these inner sheets. We're also fabricating on a different subject, but at the moment, we need a first phase to do this commercial trial. This, of course, the trial finished, then accomplished, and then other step is quite easy, to be honest and this is very easy on a different subject or any shape and any size.

Jessica: Yes. Okay. [laughs] You're looking to commercial trials at the end, with what you've got at the moment?

Jinghua: Yes, because the commercial trial is quite different from the lab test, that's what's important there before we enter the market.

Jessica: Yes. That sounds good. You briefly covered it in the video, but just to give everyone a bit more of information about it, is how do you know when it needs to be replaced? If you want to just go through that part. I believe I saw it on the video, but if you want to just go through so people understand that a bit better.

Jinghua: Yes. Basically, I did it twice of apple test. Then, after 90 days, I can say the color is likely changed, if you see the response from the sunlight. To make the people easy to identify this material need to replace, we're trying to develop some color change. Then, this color, it's like a mask and then, once the material also function, then this color will change, then you not taking, you wash 10 of your new material.

Jessica: Okay. What I'm gathering from what you said there was there's a color change and that indicates that it's no longer functioning and it's [crosstalk] -

Jinghua: Yes. They're not effective anymore. Yes.

Jessica: -and to swap it out at that point.

Jinghua: Yes.

Jessica: Fantastic.

Jinghua: Thank you.

Jessica: Oh, this one's a good one that's come in. Is it difficult to manufacture the product?

Jinghua: This question I could say a yes and a no. As long as they have an existing commercial lease equipment, which we can modify it and we can remotely control it. We can do this modification through this manufacturing. We can but one thing is that you create product then what we need is probably millions of meter square, which is a bit of challenge because we should be able to do because in a commercial , they have some effective that the equipments are for us to do this modification and then to do the work.

Jessica: I've got another question here. Is there a production line that could make the product?

Jinghua: Yes. I want to say is they have some commercial equipment which we can use, but we need to modify these equipment to suit our production.

Jessica: What you're saying at the moment, you need to change production lines to create the product?

Jinghua: At the moment, with a small amount of this product, we can produce at the lab, but as I mentioned, every day we can produce one meter to two-meter square for the small trial. In the future, when we need more than thousands of kilometers square meter, in that case, we have to go to the commercial production line, which in that case, actually, at the moment, was calling the solutions. We know they have some equipment which is available for this commercial production, but we need to modify and further funding supporting to the staff.

Jessica: Obviously, further funding to jump up to that?

Jinghua: Yes. I figured Hugo can also talk a little bit more.

Hugo: Thanks, Jinghua. Look, I think the technology to manufacture the sheets is already available and is in use globally in other sectors and industries. So, the basic equipment is available, but in order to manufacture this particular type of material, there is some modification required. In the short term, AloxiTec is able to manufacture enough to do the trials. In the next 12, 15 months, one of the strategies will be looking to see who we can outsource manufacturing to so that we can scale the manufacturing into the larger volumes that would be required. It's not a technology problem, it's more about accessing the assets that we can get so that we can meet the demands, that should all the technology work out over the next 15 months.

Jessica: Fantastic. Thanks, Hugo. I've got a few more questions starting to come in. Oh, this one's a really interesting one. What's so unique about this solution compared to others on the market? What makes this unique? What makes you-- what you've created so unique? Jinghua, I'll throw it back over to you if you'd like to answer that one.

Jinghua: Okay. Yes. Actually, first of all, before I invented this material, we did several interviews on the customers. Then, one long one that was very impressive of these interviews is the Flemington Markets where we went there in the early morning, 6:00 and the people was very busy and we asked like a, "How much do they preserve their produce?" Then we visit their huge fridge and they pulled off like 200 kilos per day is $20. Then, just things like, "Oh, my God. They have to spend $70,000 every year for one kind of fruit," which at least is almost a postdoc salary. I think the first priority is that if we can something is to replace the fridge, that will be good. Actually, in our work, that do have other active packaging material, which we already achieved as a heat into temperature to protect these fresh produce. For example, a pear is fresh or from their video, you could say, they could have preserved the apples around 28 days or cherries the same four days. It's fresh. Also, for the bananas, around 10 more days, which again, you'll say, "Oh, some of my materials are also good because my apple is already more than 83 days and banana more than 48 days. Then, it's really compare the price. As I mentioned, my price stands much lower than their price, particular I'm pretty very generous, very good competence. Yes. One other stuff is that after validate this product in a commercial trial, it's very important and also get hold of the safety test done and regulatory approval. So, I think it's safe.

Hugo: Also, Jinghua, one thing we've talked about is that this technology is able to both break down ethylene, so we could replace an ethylene absorbent material. Also, because it's a modified air or modifies the air around the produce, it can also act similarly to a modified air packaging plastic. It has a duel capability. What's also interesting is that it has the ability to do this, especially with some of the projects that's been tested at room temperature. One of the areas where it could have a good value is when you have produce like cherries. They're packed with this material in them. As they go back out to market, there will be periods of time when they go into higher temperatures and they are outside of the cold chain or other areas. Those times, other types of materials and some of the ethylene absorbers are not as effective, so there's an opportunity here where this could actually help to extend the shelf up the produce in those times when they get out of other types of protection methods. This is something that we're really trying to look at with this technology is something that would give it a real advantage over the others, not to mention that it's a dual purpose as opposed to buying two separate different types of technologies to do the same thing.

Jinghua: Thank you so much, Hugo.

Jessica: Okay, Jinghua. I'll throw another one that I've got here. Oh, I guess everyone would like to know the story. I probably haven't heard it so far is how did you develop the technology? Where did the idea come from? How did the process happen?

Jinghua: That's basically I first I get this knowledge, because myself is a material scientist and I want to heard about ethylene is a form of gas for the fluids. We use a lot of ethylene to grow all the carbon on a tube, so we'll do other things and I, myself, also do the gas sensors. I think, "Oh, no. I can't absorb this ethylene," but it could be very different. At least we're thinking we'll apply on point the likely it was selected. During our program, our very first impression, you have to interview more than 50 customers. I say, "What?" Because ethylene is supposed to stay in the lab, do more experiments or do the literature. The first like 20 interviews is horrible because the people, "No. No. No. We're not here to-- Oh, no. No. No." It gets very frustrating, but when we get the chance to have-- this also put a luck. We get the chance to interview from this Flemington M arket. There's a grower, processor. This is how they produce and what the problem they have. Also, we really thank Andrew Smith from Tasmania Apple Shed. We had an interview with him and he told us there's a problem with the fridge, even these sophisticated fridge also sometimes cause a problem and causes a huge amount of fresh produce lost. So they definitely have some problems. By the beginning of 2018, when I finished ON Prime and I went to the lab first thinking I can produce some material as a platform and that I produce and just [audio dropout] this assessor and he's very nice. He provided a banana for me and I put the banana into the test then I went into the Tasmania. I just called Andrew Smith and also another mentor, Glen. He said, "Oh, I already have you connected you to Andrew, you can call him ." So I just direct call Andrew and said, "I want to understand the ways that you think." After that in May he gives me those apples and I use my materials. After that is when we started this journey. That is the story.

Jessica: That's the story. That's a good story. Very good story. [chuckles] Look, we just passed the halfway mark. For anybody listening, I'd just like to remind everyone that to pop any questions they've got in because we are getting through them. I might just, kind of, at this stage, as well, because we probably have people join us and everything like that. Just throw that to Hugo and Michelle. If there's any questions you'd like to ask or anything you'd like to impart that you think that we haven't covered here at the moment, would either of you like to--? Do you have any input? Is there any highlights of the product that Jinghua hasn't expressed yet?

Michelle: Hi, do you want me to go first?

Jessica: Yes. Michelle, please do. Is there anything that Jinghua hasn't covered? She's gone through her product fairly well but I'm like, "There's got to be other questions there that I haven't probed her on to show her fantastic product."

Michelle: I think Jinghua did a really, really great job. Obviously, with Hugo, they already looked through a lot of details at the moment. What I heard from Jinghua it's actually really the excitement of the industry. She has formed a great partnership with the farmers, the supplier, and I think she was really responding to industry pain points. That actually attracts a lot of attention and really showed us this particular lab technique has the scalable potential into the industry. I think that's something I will really appreciate this whole process she found out and verified.

Jessica: Yes. That's a good point, the pain points of the industry that she's really focused in on there. Thanks, Michelle. Hugo, was there anything there as well? Any points that I haven't covered yet that you think will help our audience to showcase or is there any other points that Jinghua hasn't covered?

Hugo: I guess on a more looking forward basis, one of the things that Jinghua was looking for is people who can assist with looking at the manufacturing side of this technology as it does end up in the kilometers squared sort of [crosstalk] . So, being able to have discussions with people are able to help work with her to scale the technology would be really useful. The other side of it is to see if there are people who may see this or may be listening who have connections in the industry, in the post-harvest industry, which is probably where a lot of this might go, or if I have other thoughts around where the technology could be useful given that it can be used anywhere from a packing shed all the way through to a home refrigerator, here's a really wide scope of use. Being able to find people or customers and all of those different range of organizations or individuals is a challenging thing for a startup. If there's someone out there that is interested in this technology, I'd really encourage them to reach out to Jinghua. She's very active and is always willing to speak to people. Hopefully, that this will give her an opportunity to maybe find some new people to speak to in the industry as well and help her over the next 15 months of developing this product into an actual-- or commercializing this product and getting it into the market.

Jessica: It's a very good point you make there, Hugo, about the wide range of applications for it and who can help. Jinghua, did you have anything about looking forward who-- is there anybody specific that you've got in mind that you're looking for out there, anyone that Hugo didn't cover?

Jinghua: Is it me?

Jessica: Yes, Jinghua, if people are listening in to us at the moment and they're wondering, "Okay, where could I fit in with this product?" Is there anyone specifically that you're looking to attract? It's got quite a wide range of uses but if you've got an idea in mind about where you want to head forward.

Jinghua: Yes. At the moment we're just aligned for bigger growers, the cherries farmers, cherry shed in New South Wales. The cherry shed in Tasmania. Also, one of the investors also introduced us in one in Victoria. That is cherry. Also, we have connected the avocados and we also talk to the customer and also another distributor and another avocado grower in New South Wales. At the moment, we're mainly focusing on the farmers. We know that eventually, we will go to the end-user.

Jessica: Yes. Okay. Yes, [laughs] all the way through there. I've got a few more questions coming through. I'm going to ask those. Who else is contributing to the project? Who else have you got? Is there anybody else involved, any partners, anything like that?

Jinghua: For the business partner, I really appreciated the ON Program because they put a lot of effort. Also, I work with Menzies and the Menzies coaching from Hugo and also the mentors from ON Program, Alicia and others, who really contributed to my project. Also, I sent out all these farmer-growers. Yes. They provided the fruits and different times to let me do this test.

Jessica: Thinking about that, is there any partners that you would like to-- if there's any in our audience, like if there's anyone specific, any partners or anything that you'd like to have them get in touch with you or is there anybody in specific?

Jinghua: We'll definitely work on with the investors and who knows basically the food area and food waste and also food growers and the distributor. Yes. We could contact them after. I will really appreciate if they have help us get more revenue or more channels to put this product into the market.

Jessica: Yes. Perfect. I've got another new one that's come through. That's actually a really good question. What is the base material the product is made from? The second part for it is the intro mentioned that is not plastic and that is recyclable. I might just get you to answer the first part first and we'll go through onto the second one. What is the base material the product is made from?

Jinghua: The base material is non-plastic. Basically, we call it the flexible ceramic. Yes. So, I hope this satisfies the question. Is that okay?

Jessica: Yes. Perfect. In your video, the intro mentioned that it's not plastic and that it's recyclable. Did you want to extend on that a little bit more?

Jinghua: Yes, because this material is robust and basically after it lose the function and needs changing so we can collect it and then we can refurbish and then we can use it and resell this product again.

Jessica: It's recyclable is what you're saying? You can take it, use it, and recycle it again?

Jinghua: Yes. Exactly is the one you mentioned.

Jessica: Fantastic. Okay. I've got another question here specifically asking me about what's your professional background? I know you did a bit of an intro at the beginning. We've probably had other people join and everything like that. They're just asking where do you fit into the industry and what's your background.

Jinghua: My background is in material scientist. I really had more than 18 years of experience in materials fabrication, characterization, and application. M y PhD supervisor, Steven Paul, is very nice. When I started my project, he gave me the biggest typewriter that is pretty cool. I do my experiments to find anything in my experiment. I think why this happened. That is really give me a lot of chance to creating more things .

Jessica: Fantastic. Thank you very much, Jinghua. It's a bit of an odd one in amongst everything else we've been talking about your product but that one's there as well. Did you want to talk a little bit about the cost savings and the benefits of the product for those that have joined us halfway through around future potential, if you've got any figures or anything like that that you'd like to--?

Jinghua: Definitely. I hope this product can access the inner remote place where this harder have the filtration and this product can benefit this transporter to make these delicious fruit or vegies across all the world. I, myself, come from China and we have these very many mountains and it's very hard to get the freezer truck to travel and so many delicious foods. We have so many very good fungus and these things cannot come out. If the technology work, I think it will benefit a lot of these delicious food come out from different remote place. Yes.

Jessica: Yes. No. That's good. That's good. Jinghua, because we're talking only about shelf life. We're talking about microbial and we're talking about that you're more measuring the quality of the shelf life rather than the microbial aspects of it. I guess I'm going to be asking about can you see one parameter, it's like the determining factor to measure around the deterioration of shelf life? Is there something going forward that you're going to be measuring?

Jinghua: One of these equipment we use is called a CL Meter which is the level of chlorophyll, it's the level of the fruit. The chlorophyll is indicate with ripening of the fruit. Less chlorophyll which means overripening and more chlorophyll which means less ripening. This is one of equipment we use to determine this fruit is ripen faster or slow. Other part is like for the apple that you do this how hard, the firmness. Also, I went to Tasmania and the vendor from this apple shade, how to measure the sugar level, the color level, et cetera. So, we can use them but I think from appearance is also one of the important first parameter to look at.

Hugo: I think it's fair to say that every different produce type has a different set of test parameters that people will look for and the best way to find that out is in working with the growers who tend to be the people that will be most interested in understanding the quality of the fruit because that will impact their price. In different parts of fruit, you look at different things. If your cherries or, say, your grapes end up not keeping green stems for a long time, then they don't look so good when they get to the supermarket or into the markets and they may not be used as A-grade or they might be B-grade and that affects your price. So, most of it or a lot of it will be dependent on the type of produce and what you're trying to achieve and what the consumer at the end of the day wants to see out of it. I think one of the strengths of what Jinghua does is she works very closely with the growers to try and understand what their challenges are and then the best measures that they use, the measures that they already use. So, it'll vary between different types of produce.

Jinghua: Yes. Thank you so much, Hugo, reminding me. Yes. Later, at the moment I'm learning from avocado. They use this dry matter, the oil content to measure this avocado's quality. Yes. It's different. Yes. You're right, Hugo.

Jessica: It sounds like Jinghua that avocado is one of the next ones that you're looking at?

Jinghua: Yes. Yes.

Jessica: From what you said earlier, you'd already looked at cherries and apples and there was a third one, wasn't there?

Jinghua: And the bananas.

Jessica: Bananas? That's right. Yes and avocados is where you're hunting-- is there any other, anything else that you've got in your mind that you'd like to test as well.

Jinghua: Now, I think I will have many thinking but as suggested by Hugo, even we can-- For example, if we can validate in the cherry shelf-life , even we can sell on occupied 10% of most cherry markets, then our revenue will be more than 300K and you could think if we add the avocado, that will be few millions in business revenue. So, we're not trying to only focus on the cherries and avocados. Also, we'll do some home testing on the berries because the berry is quite a delicate fruit so it's not very easy but we start to doing that as well.

Jessica: Fantastic. Yes. That's great to know, Jinghua. Berries are also on your radar. I've got another one come in here. Yes. This one's a good one. Do you see any hurdles in getting appropriate regulatory approvals for food content packaging? It's one that we haven't covered so far.

Jinghua: I think Hugo had a great experience and he understands a lot. For me, I say, "This is safe. We use." [laughter]

Jessica: Hugo, did you want to jump in there with any hurdles that you see for getting regulatory approvals for the food content packaging?

Hugo: Sure. I think there is a need to understand the regulatory and safety side of the product. One of the first things that Jinghua is focusing on at the moment is understanding her regulatory strategy, safety strategy, what's the next-- Every individual market is different. They require different types of testing. They require different types of registrations. So, I guess, the key thing is can we make a market here in Australia first for the product? Can we show that it's safe to use here? Every indication she has at this stage is that it should be because similar products are used in the food industry. However, you still need to do that testing. Having a strategy to work on then is one of the primary things that Jinghua is looking at along with doing the trials with the producers and looking at the manufacturing. I think that's something that will be determined over time. It also depends on how the product is used as well.

Jessica: Thanks, Hugo. Yes. Great answer there. Jinghua, we've got only about 10 minutes or so left here. I just wanted to throw to you and-- See, is there anything as far as it-- We've got everyone listening. Is there anything that you wanted that I haven't covered as far as any questions and anything you'd like to share. I'm specifically thinking from an investor point of view, is there anything you're looking for out there? You've got your floor at the moment. If you had the perfect person or, yes, to take that very next step, what would your next step be and who are you looking for?

Jinghua: As long as our strategy is two-step. In first step, we're looking for these investors and provide this around 500K. In that case, we can validate the product, finish the commerical trial and these regulatory approvals strategy and also safety and also the pilot study of the manufacturing, to realize then in the conversation, everything is equal, everything is successful, then that will work, start generating revenue and then we'll see another 1.5 million to realize this scaleup, this product to establish selling and get the revenue. At the moment, we're looking for the investment and we're also looking for different skilled hands. At the moment, I get a lot of coach, mentors that we are in a team-building process as well. Myself the background is only the material scientist for sure. I need more like have the business insight and have a lot of customer insight. Yes. I can start create this network. I have understand this customer what they need. However, to become a sale or closing deal, I don't think I'm good at that. [chuckles] It's really for me hard to say that so definitely need some very good skill and insight people.

Jessica: Fantastic. That's great, Jinghua. That does give people out there what you're really looking for your next steps. I'll just again throw over-- Michelle, did you have any or Hugo did you have anything else to add to what you think would be for Jinghua who she could be looking for that she might not have covered? Is there anybody for either a partner or anybody that should get in contact that she might not have said so far, somebody out in our audience that might be wondering how they fit in. Would you like to jump in at all?

Michelle: Yes. Sure. I think we've been going through quite a lot of content here already. I don't think I have anything to add at this moment. Yes.

Hugo: One of the things that would be useful is that Jinghua is looking for money, which is great, and money is always good, but partnerships would also be of value with organizations that are involved in that supply chain, whether it's from the manufacturing side or from the sales side into the post-harvest markets. Also, looking at it the other side is anyone from perhaps the grocery trade? Because there's a lot of interest in trying to remove a lot of the plastic packaging out of groceries at the moment and to try and find ways to improve the packaging formats we use. I think that Jinghua's technology might be able to find ways to, not necessarily solve packaging problems, but to find ways to reduce some of the packaging requirements that we have. Anyone that has an interest in that sort of space would be someone that will be worth speaking to as well and any larger organizations that have an interest in this technology. There's many ways that you can partner with these types of earlier stage technology groups where both sides can benefit. Those sorts of partnerships, I think, would be really interesting to try and accelerate the commercialization of the technology.

Jessica: Thanks, Hugo. Yes, that's great for anybody listening to know where she's going with it. I've got another one here. They're asking about the path to market and I know we've covered earlier about timelines and where the future is. Did you want to just cover, Jinghua, where you see the future, 6 months, 12 months forward from there just as far as milestones and where you're hoping to head to.

Jinghua: I think our firm now, at the moment, we're focused on the fresh produce market.

Jessica: Yes. Fantastic.

Jinghua: [crosstalk] firstly as a grower or distributor or even the packaging or deliver these packaging materials to these farmers. Then after that, we also have-- because basically is just a sheet and they're robust and not anything will come out. Once the state see this regulatory approval and suitable for transporting meat, but in that case, we definitely need another-- so step in the generation of product, which is antimicrobial to make sure because even the meat if to stay without refrigerator, it's quite risky to get the bacterias. So, make sure we can kill the bacteria at the same time to keep the quality of these meat products or other-- One of my team is really likes sashimi [laughs] Yes, because it's just a sheet and no additives really. No need to worry about anything contaminating the taste of the very delicious sashimi, but that is in the future. The first 15 months so it's really first to target everything and then after 15 months, when we will first get the revenue from the fresh produce and then we will target other markets. Once it's validated.

Jessica: Fresh fruit is what you're saying that is where you will start? Fresh produce? Get your regulatory and all those kind of things sorted and then, what do you say your next step would be? Where will you--?

Jinghua: The next step could we go to the meat market or fresh [crosstalk]

Jessica: Yes, meat market.

Jinghua: Yes. There's a different approach or even the processing food market. Definitely, there are a lot of people have expert to come in. It's not very easy but yes, there's a big vision, we hope to preserve all the fruits longer, radiation, and chemical contamination that is really. So, in the future we can realize. Yes.

Jessica: Okay. So that's your next step is into your meats and that kind of thing is where you're thinking you might be heading? Do you have a timeline on that? I'm just asking if you've got an idea of when you would like to be heading towards that, assuming all your other steps occur? [chuckles]

Jinghua: Yes. If everything is successful in the first 15 months, then we can start selling the product in the fresh produce markets, which are in a one-year time and we try to occupy as big as possible with fresh produce market. Then, at the same time, AloxiTec have the lab and we will do these developments. That's one of the things after screening tests we can focus on this meat or other markets or even could be early if everything is very smooth, but from my understanding, it's not easy.

Jessica: Okay. I've just got one last or I've got a few minutes here, but I've got people asking about the product being a wrapping material and being flexible and everything like that. Do you just want to quickly run through-- I'm assuming we're getting questions in as we're going through, just give us a quick rundown of the product as it is at the moment and where you will be heading? I know we talked customization before as well, a timeline around that at all if you've got anything there. Do you want to talk to the first part being about-- people are asking about the wrapping material and it being flexible and those kind of things. Did you want to give them a quick rundown of the product? I know we spoke earlier, but we've obviously had people coming back in.

Jinghua: This product is very easy to use. Maybe, Michelle, do you think you can explain? I talked to Michelle about this product a long time. I hope Michelle can explain in the easier way.

Michelle: I'm just new myself. You want me to talk about how it could be flexible and to fit into different things. Is that right?

Jessica: People are asking here about customization and flexibility and like being a wrapping material. Maybe if you wanted to talk about what it is at the moment and then in future if you could see any customization or where they could go that way.

Michelle: I think at the moment, Jinghua has mentioned already, she's trying to produce things like a sheet, with different sizes of sheet, a gauge, a surface area to absorb the environment, to be interacting with the environment, but obviously, I think in the future, there is a potential for her to design the formulation and design the material to say it's a cup-shaped material for a specific product or fruit in a cup shape or it can be a bit more flexible. Obviously, as Hugo mentioned it before as well, it also depends on what are the application cases we are looking at. Different fruits have different requirements. If we're going beyond the fresh produce, going to meat or other products, probably it really needs to go back to what Jinghua had done really well so far is actually to understand application cases, understand the partner, and look at their pain point or look at where the value could be realized in the specific application.

Jessica: Fantastic. Thanks, Michelle. That was good. That was really good. I think we've had questions around different ways to apply it. We're going to wrap it up there. We've only got a couple more minutes. Jinghua, if there was any last things that I hadn't covered that you'd like to cover?

Jinghua: I think, yes, I'm not very sure otherwise, but I was really hopeful our product can be commercialized soon.

Jessica: Fantastic. Thank you. I'm just going to bring up a little bit of few little housekeeping elements here. All the presentations and videos will be made available after this event. We'll send you some more information in the coming days. Feel free to use our hashtag, I mentioned earlier on Twitter, #ONDemoNight. Reach out to our team. If you've got any questions or anything we didn't cover, if you'd like to connect with us, you can find our contact, the contact details for our team in our event version. Thank you, everyone, for listening in, for hearing our team. Thank you Jinghua. Thank you, Hugo, and thank you very much, Michelle, our mentors for joining us. Jinghua, thank you very much for sharing your product, for sharing with the listeners out there and feel free to get in touch.

Jinghua: Thank you so much, Jessica. Thank you so much, Hugo. Thank you so much, Michelle.

Michelle: Thank you.

Hugo: Thank you, Jessica. Thank you, watchers.

Jessica: Yes. Exactly. Thanks. [00:59:52] [END OF VIDEO]