Prism-Neuro

Jo: Welcome, everyone. I'm Jo and we'll be your co-host for this session, along with the Prism Neuro team. You can engage with us via the Q&A forum using the link in the comment section, you'll be able to see all the questions sent in by the audience, and vote on those you prefer. I'll be sure to moderate this and relay our questions back to the team. All presentations and videos will be made available after the event, so sit back, enjoy, with your beverage of choice. I'll now invite the Prism Neuro team to introduce themselves, starting with you, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth McGrath: Hi, thanks, Jo. I'm Elizabeth McGrath. I'm one of the founders and the CEO of Prism Neuro. I'm at the University of Canberra working with Professor Gordon Waddington, who will introduce himself in a minute. I've been involved in research, Vestibular Visual Research for a number of years, but more recently I've been at the Therapeutic Goods Administration, working in medical device regulation. I'm very happy to be here tonight and answer anyone's questions. Thanks.

Gordon Waddington: Thank you Elizabeth, I'm Gordon Waddington. As Elizabeth mentioned, I'm at the University of Canberra as well. My background as a physiotherapist and researcher for the last 20 odd years, specializing in the neuroscience of human movement. Thanks.

Braden: Hi, my name is Braden and I'm a biomedical engineer, and originally was working with Gordon as well at University of Canberra. My background has been in naval aviation and in the neurology and space, particularly around vestibular and visual testing, primarily for environments which can really hurt and cause problems with those systems. It's great to be working with Gordon and Elizabeth, on this really exciting technology. Thanks.

Jo: Thank you all. We do have a question for the audience, but at first, I'd like to ask, to get an overview of the technology. An objective scientific solution for athlete talent identification, performance managing, when will-- Sorry, what makes your product different from others in the sports performance field?

Gordon: Thanks Josephine, I suppose the major differentiator for us is the areas of brain and movement control function that we're measuring, that nobody else is currently measuring into. That's the major significant discriminator from what the systems essentially measure, how high you can jump, how fast you can run. We're looking at actually how the brain performs in controlling movement from visual, the balance system of the vestibular system, and from what we call the proprioceptive or the somatosensory system. That's quite unique in terms of the sector.

Jo: Thank you. I'll go to another question. When will you take your product to market?

Elizabeth: Thanks, Jo. We plan to take our product to market as a service, where Prism Neuro staff will take our hardware to a client's location such as an elite sports team training ground, and we'll be doing that later this year. Eventually though, we'll be developing our hardware to be a user-friendly system and easily operated by the customer. We'll be able to sell the hardware directly to customers, and then just provide our software as a service. We hope to be in that position in about 18 to 24 months.

Jo: Thank you, Elizabeth. I actually have a question from the audience. Can you apply this technology to detect early-stage neurological disorders such as ALS?

Elizabeth: I'll let Gordon, our Chief Science Officer talk to that. [pause 00:04:43]

Jo: Sorry, Gordon, you're just on mute.

Gordon: Sorry, I think I muted myself at the start. Thanks for that question. The answer is that we haven't done specific research in looking at ALS. However, we would expect that the sensitivity of the technology would pick up early-stage changes, in potentially in disease states like that, but obviously that needs further future work.

Jo: I understand that the early adopters are most likely to come from performance-driven users. Just wondering if there has been any work on using this in the healthcare sector, such as measuring disablement?

Gordon: We have done some early work in the falls area. Not specifically in relation to measurement of impairment associated with specific areas disability. Certainly, the early work we've done in the fall area indicates there is an association between the metrics that we output and falls risk. There is certainly associations there. We've also done work looking across the lifespan studies, where we've done cross-sectional work, looking at groups of people from ages of seven through to 87, and shows a nice sensitivity to changes in that movement, performance and control, which is associating them with things like falls risk, right across the lifespan.

Jo: Great, thank you so much, Gordon. I have a space question, so is I think a fun topic. What does your value proposition look like for a customer in the space market?

Elizabeth: Well, humans haven't evolved to exist in low gravity. There are changes that occur to the body when a human spends time in a low gravity environment. Our system is able to monitor and detect those changes so that appropriate rehabilitation can be applied.

Jo: Thank you, Elizabeth. I have a question for all three. Someone has asked what university are you from?

Elizabeth: University of Canberra.

Jo: Right, and then Gordon.

Gordon: Yes, University of Canberra. Sorry.

Jo: I thought you might have been mixed. Usually, teams are in from the one university but I thought I'd check . Okay, great. I have another question. Will you need regulatory approval before you begin selling?

Elizabeth: Our strategy for market approach is to focus on the athletic performance market first, where we'll be looking at healthy athletes. We'll be helping with talent identification. We've shown that our measurements are sensitive to being able to identify an athletic potential, athletic talent. That's where we'll be focusing our efforts at first. While we're doing that, and working with some of our key early adopters, we'll be developing our algorithms and our databases that will allow us to seek regulatory approval, so that we can move into the diagnostic market. One of the areas we plan to target is concussion diagnosis, that will be one of our early goals.

Jo: We have another space question. Just wondering from the previous question, does it also relate to performance testing in space? A large driver for them is to maintain the strength, their strength, how can you expect to use such a technology in space, and who have you already done trials with if you've done trials?

Elizabeth: Gordon, [crosstalk] you want to answer this one?

Gordon: Done it again. Thank you, that is a really interesting question. We have done some initial work with some colleagues at the Johnson Space Center, in Houston. The picture we're looking at, you're absolutely right, there's a loss of strength, muscle strength, because you simply reduce the amount of activity and exercise load you do whilst you're in space. You also lose things like bone density and the strength of the bones associated with that. The particular area that we focus on is the neural connection between the brain and the muscle, and the sensitivity to signal coming through the skin and coming through things like the sole of the foot, and the little receptors in the muscle that tell you when your body's moving. We're particularly interested in that area, and targeting that area to ensure that that sensitivity is optimized for as long as possible. There are aspects of what we do that can potentially support that. For periods of time we've already looked at acute models of that. In other words, just simply going from weight-bearing to non-weight bearing. We are looking at doing some longer-term studies with the bed-rest models, of where people go to bed literally for 60 to 70 days and those systems deteriorate. We've all seen pictures of the astronauts coming back to Earth after long periods of time in space, or extended periods of time in space, and having difficulty standing up. They're always assisted by the crews that pick them up out of the landing capsule. Certainly, a part of that is strength but the other major part of that is, they would just simply fall and stumble because of that control system not being operating efficiently. That is a huge issue for the targets of spending time, extended periods of time on the moon or potentially for going to Mars. It's a really interesting question, and still a lot of work to be done. We have already established partnerships with colleagues in the US, and as I said, in Houston. Thank you.

Jo: Thanks. Is it cheeky to ask which colleagues in Houston, in the US?

Gordon: Are you asking me to name individuals?

Jo: Sure.

Gordon: The Johnson Space Center it's Scott Wood, who's head there of the neuroscience program at the Johnson Space Center. Ajitkumar Mulavara, one of the senior research team members in that area. Those are the two major players. We were in Houston at the end of last year, just before travel shut down, as part of that development process. We have some grant proposals in process to support that work.

Jo: Very exciting. I have another question. It relates back in to the previous is, does your product need to be calibrated to be used for predicting or classifying performance ability i.e., does it rely on an athlete's baseline data?

Gordon: I try not to mute myself straight up this time.

Jo: Sorry, under the pump Gordon!

Gordon: I am under the pump. In terms of performance data, no. We now have undertaken large numbers of data captures with athletes across a range of sports, including Olympic sports and football, various codes of football and so on. Individuals who perform really well straight up on the metric that we provide, are going to be higher-performing athletes. Whether you're a footballer or a swimmer or a badminton player, for that matter, it taps into a fundamental component of our motor ability, that we can measure with this process. The reality is, people like me, I was never going to be an Olympic athlete. The terrible thing is to some extent, we could probably argue that we could see this by the time you're in your early teens, whether that performance level exists. That's really one of the fundamental components of what we're talking about with talent I.D., because athletes can, particularly in the high performing sports, for instance, in the US and European markets, the fairly large sums involved in salaries for these individuals. Most of that talent I.D. has been based on the coaches' gut feeling, I suppose, is the way to describe it in terms of movement performance. Humans love good movement performance in other humans. We go to the ballet to watch movement. We go to sport to watch movement. We're all very attuned to that. Coaches make a living out of being very good at detecting who's good at movements and who's not so good at movements. Basically what our system does is take that subjectivity out of it and actually make it an objective measure of that ability.

Jo: That answers the other question that the audience has relayed; can you tell the specifics on what you can measure in terms of athlete performance? Did you want to expand on that a little bit?

Gordon: The specifics of what we measure?

Jo: Yes. What you can measure. Yes.

Gordon: No, is the answer. We'd be giving it all away. At a fundamental level, what we can say is, we can measure aspects of your visual performance, your inner ear sensory performance and what's called your somatosensory or your proprioceptive performance, which is how good your brain is at listening to where your foot or your ankle or your arm is in space, without looking at it. Which is also known as proprioception. Understanding how all those come together is critical to human movement performance. Those of us who are really good at listening to all those signals and putting all that signals together and producing a response, are good movers, are good movement performance. That's completely independent of strength and speed, for that matter. You can be a really fast runner but not particularly agile. It's a completely different measure to what's functionally measured in that sense at the moment.

Jo: Thank you so much, Gordon. You've really touched on what your competitive advantage is, but I was just wondering if that shifts in terms of global competitive advantage.

Gordon: To the best of our knowledge, what we do isn't currently available anywhere in the world. In that same way. In fact, one of the really cool things about working in Australia, and we've worked now for a decade or so with things like the Australian Institute of Sport , you do have the best, I would argue the best science and sport in the world here in Australia. We have done for some time since the 80s, I suspect, when the IAS started off. To that extent, we've got a pretty good finger on the pulse of what's going on. I could probably pass to Braden, but we certainly had interest from the US and Europe in the technology. That's obviously where we would look down the track with that.

Jo: Thank you, Gordon. We've got one more question. I'm wondering if we can take it to another member of the team, to give you a break. Maybe you can have a sip of wine or something. [laughs] I think we have time for one more and then, I'll wrap it up unless something else comes through. Actually, [unintelligible 00:17:49] I'll just ask if there's a certain age where this predictive capability becomes valid, and how early in a person's lifetime can you start to measure?

Gordon: I'm sorry, I was-- [crosstalk]

Jo: I was just going to give you a little bit of a break.

Elizabeth: There have been some studies in younger athletes. However, we haven't gone into the full spectrum of age, that is potentially something that we might bring forward. However, at this point in time, we're really more focused on late teens and above. That's the area, the age groups that we worked with the most. If Gordon wants to add to that now that he's had a-- [crosstalk] .

Gordon: No, no. That's exactly right, Elizabeth. We had, as I said, done an age span study and the youngest there was seven to nine-year-olds. That separation appears to be the same there. There's only one study and that would need to be supported. It does seem to roll right across the age span in that sense.

Jo: I've got a good question, a good way to end the session today is what's the biggest lesson that you took from your own experience?

Elizabeth: There's a big learning curve for scientific researchers in moving to the commercialization space. The On-Accelerate Team really is able to understand that gap. I think there's a lot of accelerators out there that don't necessarily focus on the researcher trying to enter that space because it's quite a focused world that you reside in when you're in that scientific zone, and there is a lot to learn. The On-Accelerate Team really provides that wonderful cross-section of skills, and introduces you into all the new things that you need to focus on, and I think just that awareness of, there's a whole new world out there that you have to acquaint yourself with, in order to be successful with a commercial venture.

Braden: I agree with everything Elizabeth said. The only thing I'd add with that is the incredible links that the On-Team provided through the mentoring support. That's a gift that just keeps giving with the links that then they provide, and that's extended. I don't think money can buy what the On-Team have done for us with that, that's tremendous.

Jo: The last question from the previous session was, could this technology be used for MTBI, which is, mild traumatic brain injury? Could any of you answer that question?

Braden: Yes, absolutely. In fact, my background with the US military, most of my research was focused on TBI and MTBI in particular. This technology is unique in that it does test not only the visual, vestibular and proprioception, and that's really key to detecting MTBI. Some MTBI will only affect vision. If you only do a vision test, you will pick up some but not all. Similarly, vestibular proprioception, our technology definitely is grounded in detection of MTBI, or as we more commonly know it as concussion. This is definitely something we'll be pursuing. Then Elizabeth and Gordon, as we move forward into the health space, it will be regulated as a medical device to detect mTBI.

Jo: Thank you, Braden, we would keep it open. We have another attendee that's joined us. Did Elizabeth or Gordon want to add anything to Braden's answer? Sorry Gordon, you're on mute.

Gordon: [laughs] I just want to maintain my ability to not unmute myself. Just we are currently collecting data in that space module. I should qualify that, it's just on pause whilst we're coming back from the COVID position. That's underway at the moment, that additional data collection.

Elizabeth: I guess I'll just reiterate that, that market application requires regulatory approval. When we launched in the beginning, we're only focused on wellness and looking at healthy athletes, and trying to identify athletic talent and helping them manage their condition day-to-day, looking at correlations between their movement control and things like sleep or training. Then eventually as we collect the data and we get the regulatory approvals, we will enter that diagnostic space and focusing on concussion or MTBI. [crosstalk]

Jo: Now, I've done it. That happens at least once every video conference. There are a few challenges when it comes to videoing. At least we're in the comfort of our homes or offices. We actually have a few attendees. We'll just open it off, sit here and hopefully, there'll be some questions that come through.

Braden: Just saying it, it's Braden in here. I just like to add something to some earlier discussions that we were having around space, and Gordon mentioned about this, what's the value in space? One of the key things that we're looking at is this landing. When the astronauts land, we see a situation where everyone, it's all normal. They have problems. What we really are concerned about, and this is where Gordon and we've got involved with NASA is what happens when you land and something goes wrong, and you've got to run away from the spaceship? This is where there's this concept of sensory-motor, and not only diagnosing that the sensory-motor is having problems, but also providing that rehab and exercises. We see with our space product, not only will it be used in space to diagnose decrements and sensory-motor, but we will then use the same equipment to provide that rehab, that training. Astronauts will be doing their training with the treadmill and a few other bits and pieces. Then we'll also do the end, but we'll also use our device which will then help them with their sensory-motor. Then finally, we all saw this week some fantastic with SpaceX, they merge the two astronauts up to the space station. Well, they're going to come back in somewhere between one and four months. If they're up there for four months, they will truly have adapted to that environment. They will be affected. They're going to land in water. Again, if everything goes well, they're good, there's not going to be a problem. If there's a problem when they land in water, like they had with Gus Grissom, Gus Grissom popped the hatch early because he got motion sick in the capsule. This is when you're going to need your sensory-motor. NASA is actually quite excited about this technology. As Gordon said, we've got some projects that are in the work, so to speak. I will be doing bedrest studies hopefully as soon as early next year.

Jo: Thank you, Braden. That's very exciting. Thank you for adding to that. Actually, I've got a good question which circles back to your pitch, and it would be really good to have in this recording. Someone's put into one of the questions saying, they don't fully understand how the technology measures the athletic performance. Can you explain this a little more? The pitch wasn't clear, apparently, well, maybe they forgot, but it'd be really great to reiterate that. Any of you want to take that question?

Elizabeth: In essence, what we do is by a large volume of work that's already been undertaken. We can see correlations between the measures that we can produce in relation to the three Systems we're looking at, that regulate and control information around your movement control system, so the visual system in either vestibular and the somatosensory system. Previous work has shown correlations between those and performance. Using those measures, we can get an indication straight up, of how a person is performing, or how they would perform on the global scale immediately within this straight-up assessment, but also in relation to week by week performance. We know that those performance scores change associated with things like stress load. Those also change in relation to performance into athletic performance. It's fundamentally measuring the control system for how the whole body performs movement activity. By measuring those three input-output systems and how good you are at accessing that information, allows us to provide that information about performance and potential talent on a one-off measures, potential talent measure. Thanks.

Jo: Thank you. Does anyone want to add to that? Okay, I've got another question, how much of the technology is off-the-shelf, and how much more development is still to be done?

Braden: I'll start and then Gordon and Elizabeth can-- The Visual Vestibular Test, it's an off-the-shelf in a sence, virtual reality goggles, so that the hardware that you saw in the video is off-the-shelf. All the software is custom. Then I'll throw to either Gordon or Elizabeth to describe the baseplate.

Gordon: The baseplate system is not off-the-shelf that's been developed in terms of the somatosensory measurement systems, that come as part of a pipeline of research that stems back over a decade. At the same time is that, though we are actively, we have actual web datasets developed with that system now after quite some time, so the technology is quite operational in that sense. Thanks. Braden: I just want to add, and then the final is this integration of the visual vestibular, which is as I said, off-the-shelf hardware, with the custom hardware of the proprioception. Then in the software, we then combine all those scores to provide the information that we provide to our customers.

Jo: Thank you. What do the tests look like if someone want to test themselves? What does the equipment look like? How long does it take?

Gordon: Elizabeth, can you share that image?

Elizabeth: Yes. What the equipment looks like?

Gordon: Yes, rather than me try and explain things.

Elizabeth: Sure.

Gordon: In terms of how long it takes, the current, it's a combined set of tests at the moment. There we go. The athlete stands on a platform, as you can see, which has a fixed component and a mobile component, and wears a virtual reality headset, as Braden said, as an off-the-shelf system with our software. Those systems interact and look at how effective you are in controlling, very fine control of movement at the lower limb and at the ankle and foot. Also, allows us with different permutations of that to measure balance and functional control. The test at the moment is a parallel sequence of tests. The plan is to have that fully integrated into one bundle, and to be able to undertake that in less than 10 minutes for the complete test. As you can see, the idea also is to have it as suitcase, functional travel luggage size, so it can move with teams as needed as well. Potentially, obviously down the track that functions as an easy option in any clinic situation, once we move from the performance analysis side to potential therapeuticstrack right down the track.

Jo: Thank you. Gordon, I have a question that relates. How would this fit into an athlete's traditional performance measurement testing, strength tests and cardiovascular tests?

Gordon: Potentially it augments that sequence. If you think of the set of tests that the athletes has now, probably the biggest hole in that bundle of tests fit around the individual's neurological performance picture. It fits into what's commonly-- fits around wellness and the health status in terms of the central system. We know that very much relates to performance from day-to-day and week to week. In that sense, there's a really big hole in the data that's collected. Obviously from the high performance coach perspective, there would be not the normal process around speed and power and performance, relative to whether it's a team sport or an individual sport, but that more central functional control can now be completely accessible with this approach.

Braden: I think, Josephine, I'll just add in terms of this, as Gordon mentioned, it's 10 minutes, so this testing can be done quickly and easily within their weekly cycle. Typically, would be on a down day, the Monday, the Tuesday if they played on the weekend. When they come in for their debriefing in there, they can quickly do this test, it's 10 minutes. I think you can also see the size of the equipment, as Gordon mentioned, is quite small. In a sense, some of the bigger clubs could have multiple units. You're not going to need a lot of space. We've been working with one club, and it just sits in the gym with their hamstring testing machines with all their other stuff, and they just run through it really quickly. It does fit in quite nicely into their workflow, and adds an extra 10 minutes to their day.

Gordon: The other thing, too, is one of the really cool things about this, is you can't Fox the scores in this process. The only thing that happens if you attempt to gang the system is you get worse. That's one of the nice things about this being an objective process. Many of the other measures that we have of that central performance are often related to quite subjective question and answer type protocols, and very commonly also in the wellness process, sort of, in post-concussion. These measures are quite objective and give you a clear indication of change in performance ability of the individual, depending on whatever is happening in their environment at the time.

Elizabeth: Can I just add to that, too? That's a really important feature because athletes are motivated by wanting to play. They're rewarded for playing and for participating. They have motivation to say they're well, even if they may not be feeling 100%. When they're in that state, they are sometimes more likely to be injured. They want to play, they're motivated to play, but maybe they really shouldn't be playing because they're at a higher risk of injury. The system can detect that even if an athlete might be not quite ready to get back to play and wants to, our system can say, well, actually, you should rest and not go out there today, because you're more likely to get hurt. I think that's an important feature that we bring with that objectivity.

Jo: You're discussing performance and measurements in the morning, and as a quick way to understand how systems are working, but one of the questions is asking about reaction times. They're a huge indicator of athlete performance. Are you able to test on this as well?

Braden: I'll get started. Yes,and as Gordon mentioned that one of the key things that reaction times is, we test both passive and reflexive reaction times. That's really important because we don't just test dynamic or active reaction times, because that you can actually train, you can train yourself, you can practice, practice, practice. In a sense, you can fudge it. We actually also do reflexive, you've got no control over it. Absolutely, we use reaction times as one and only one of the many different parameters that we measure, to create the information that we provide. Gordon, I don't know if you wanted to add something about reaction times.

Gordon: No, that's very important, that component that you can't-- it's fundamentally impossible to fudge it. A very important component of what it does. What the system does. Yes, absolutely.

Jo: There's another attendee that's joined. We'll just give him a minut. Maybe they would like to ask a question before we wrap up for good this time. I think we've got all the questions answered. [crosstalk] Sorry, was that Braden?

Braden: Yes, Josephine, it's just a couple here. There's one about what steps have been, and this is Elizabeth, what steps have been taken towards medical device approval?

Jo: I haven't asked that one? Okay, I'll ask that one. What steps are being taken towards medical device approval? I thought I'd wrapped it into another question, but let's just answer that explicitly.

Elizabeth: We have been gathering normative data for some of our tests. We're currently building production models that we'll be using for further development. We're doing the builds through quality management procedures, we're doing detailed design documentation. The work that we're doing now, will be able to be submitted for regulatory approvals. We won't have to repeat any of that. Then once we have our latest production models built, we'll do the verification and validation testing.

Jo: Thank you, Braden for pointing that out.

Braden: There's one on sporting codes. Came in, just as there's a couple more coming.

Jo: Yes. I can see these at the bottom. I believe that's probably from Ayush . Which sporting codes are you working across currently and which clubs, if you can disclose this?

Gordon: I can start on that. I won't talk about specific clubs, but we're working in rugby league, rugby union, AFL. Currently, data has been collected in a large number of Olympic sports, gymnastics, athletics, basketball, obviously, netball in Australia, swimming. It's a fairly broad range. Our link with the development processes with the support we have through the AIS, the Australian Institute of Sport, has helped us with that capacity to reach out into a vast range of sporting codes, not just the traditional sport codes that you think of in the media as well.

Braden: I'll add to Gordon's, including the winter sports as well. We've done a lot. A lot of data has been collected from the winter sports, both at the high school level all the way up to the Olympics. We've got a lot of interest from the NFL as well. We are speaking with the NFL as well. As Gordon said, it crosses all of sport. We're getting a lot of interest in the sports where concussion or MTBI is a problem, because they've got a real need. It's not just about contact sports, it goes across all sports.

Jo: Thank you all. I think instead of wrapping up, I might just keep it open for a little bit longer, because we've just had a few more people join at the end. I know that people are jumping in-between to make the most out of this networking. If there's anything else you want to add to those answers, Gordon, Elizabeth and Braden happy to do so, and give them a little bit of time to put in their questions before we wrap up.

Gordon: Josephine, I could see another one here that we've answered, which talks about, is, when do you expect to make the device commercially available both in performance measurement and medical versions?

Jo: Yes, touched on that a little bit. Would you want to reiterate that and expand on it a little bit?

Elizabeth: Yes. I can try and tackle that one. We'll be launching as a commercial service later this year with select partners, so that we can work closely with these early adopters to refine any design features, that might need a little bit of work with the customer group that we're targeting. We will launch more broadly next year, and hope to have medical device certification probably by the end of 2022.

Braden: That sort of just reading the very last question here, which relates to improving performance, both from-- That then starts to build into that therapeutic good aspect. There is a certain amount of capacity to improve performance, and use some of the aspects of how we measure to provide feedback to undertake that process of improving performance. That is a whole next step with what we're doing with this, and very much links into the progression into the therapeutic space.

Jo: Can someone improve their performance in these tests, to expand on that question?

Braden: To a certain extent, yes, but for instance, for me, I know what my scores are on this, and I'm not an Olympic athlete. The gap between me and an Olympic athlete is not going to be achieved by some of the feedback and training. It's not able to suddenly turn anybody who doesn't have a fundamental skill set at that level. What it certainly can do is improve that for those high performers, but it can improve that for all of us in terms of our performance process. We have seen that already in some of the preliminary work, but where it really comes into it's own in that sense will be in the therapeutic area, which as we go down that track for approval.

Jo: Thank you. Do any of you want to add on that? Otherwise? I've just got one more question and then we'll wrap up. Elizabeth: I just wanted to say that recovery from injury is one of the areas that you will be able to improve, monitoring and also delivering rehabilitation therapies, which we haven't touched on very much tonight. That is also going to be included in our medical device offering.

Braden: The last question is the medical device class.

Jo: One that you're aiming for, did you just answer that Elizabeth?

Braden: Sorry Elizabeth. The question was, will the medical device class one be what we're aiming for? Is the question so?

Elizabeth: Probably two-way.

Jo: Thank you everyone for joining and thank you for your time. This session will be sent through in a while after the recording. Thank you so much. Please, if there's anything else you'd like to add, Braden, Elizabeth or Gordon. You've done an excellent job of answering all the questions. There was a lot that came your way, especially in that last segment. Feel free to shoot me an email if you need.

Gordon: Nothing further from that. My contact details are there. I'm very happy to talk to anybody who wants to follow up with other questions. Thanks, Josephine for shepherding us through this.

Braden: Very good, thank you.

Elizabeth: Thanks too. I appreciate it. Jo: Thank you so much. Thank you. You did a fabulous job. Have a great nights. Thanks, everybody. Good night.

Braden: Thank you. Bye-bye. [00:46:56] [END OF AUDIO]