Key points
- Espisode two of our audio series, Ningaloo Outlook, dives into our turtle research at Ningaloo Reef.
- Six of the seven species of sea turtles in the world have been recorded at Ningaloo.
- Our researcher shares his favourite three facts about the turtles of Ningaloo.
The Ningaloo Reef, on Western Australia’s north-west coast, is one of the world’s turtle hotspots.
Six out of the seven species of the world’s sea turtles have been recorded there. Three of those call Ningaloo home all year round, while the others are occasional visitors.
That's because Ningaloo contains important feeding grounds and nesting beaches nestled behind Australia’s largest fringing coral reef, which extends along 300 kilometres of coastline.
In the second episode of our audio series, Ningaloo Outlook, we spoke with Senior Principal Research Scientist Dr Mat Vanderklift about the wonderful world of sea turtles and his research into their lives at Ningaloo Reef. Here are his top three facts about the turtles of Ningaloo.
1. Some species are more elusive than others
While six species of sea turtles can be found at Ningaloo, Mat said green turtles are the most abundant.
"There are only really three [species] you can see on any given day, and if we’re driving around in a boat and we see 100 turtles, 98 of them are going to be green turtles, one’s going to be a loggerhead and one’s going to be a hawksbill," Mat said.
One question we've not yet been able to answer is how many turtles there actually are at Ningaloo.
Mat and the team are trying to unravel this mystery using drones, which fly along pre-set survey routes taking photos of the sea underneath. Turtles must come to the surface to breathe and, when they do, they are visible in the photos. We can then work out the number of turtles in the area from the number that can be seen in the photos.
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Hi, I'm Mya.
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Hi, I'm Georgia, and this is Ningaloo Outlook.
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Georgia and I are university students who share a
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love of books, the beach and most of all
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turtles, especially if they're tiny. Travel with us deep
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below the waves to explore what hidden treasures lie
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among the reef, whales, turtles and fauna.
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A special thanks to CSIRO, Woodside and the
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Ningaloo Reef Research Team for chatting with us
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about the magic of the reef.
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So let's dive into it.
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We are here today with Logan Hellmrich,
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a PhD student at Curtin University who
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works on the Ningaloo Outlook program. Hi, Logan.
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Thanks for coming.
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Hey guys, how's it going? Thanks for having me.
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Yeah, anytime.
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So your honors research is about
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diver operated stereo video systems. Yeah.
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Can you tell us a bit about it?
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Because I don't think it involves playing
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Harry Styles through the stereo to provide
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the turtles with some tunes.
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No, it definitely doesn't.
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It does involve stereos, but probably
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not the stereos you expect.
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So disappointed.
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Diver operated videos, we can pretty much we dumb it
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down to DOV's, so we call them DOV's and then
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the stereo part is to do with the cameras.
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So we have diver operated videos, so we have scuba
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divers who have these systems and they swim transects or
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underwater lines pretty much, and they count fish.
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So the stereo part is pretty much
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two cameras that are synchronized and calibrated
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that allow for 3D measurements of fish.
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It's all to do with photogrammetry.
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When we post analyze it, we can use our
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software which we can actually click on the tip
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of the fish and the tail of the fish
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and we can actually get the length measurement.
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We also get how far away it is and we
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get a precise, like how precise the evaluator is.
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So that's where the stereo part comes in.
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It's quite an accurate way of counting fish
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because we actually have a permanent record that
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we can come back later, count the fish
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and we know what's actually there.
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Because we see it.
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However, one downfall of that is that
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it does take a lot of time.
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There's just hours and hours of just
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watching fish videos, clicking, pausing, back and fowards.
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But it is rewarding when you see a nice
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school of fish come past, oh that's different.
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Or a shark comes past, or a stingray, it keeps you interested then.
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And so from that can you see what type of fish it is?
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You do have the limits of visibility, so
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if the water visibility is not great, you
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sometimes can't really see the fish.
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But if you're close enough to it,
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you got to see what species is.
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We have plenty of identification books that we can
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go through and then we do process of elimination.
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And once you know most of the fish, it's just
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like it just rolls and you can do it.
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And so using this system, what do
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you hope to find out from it?
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So using these systems
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the main goal is for us to count and measure the fish.
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So we get like a stock evaluation of how
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many fish are there, how many species are there.
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We also look at the assemblage composition.
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So pretty much at each site, what numbers
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of species mixed with the numbers of individuals
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and how is that different between each site.
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So sort of looking at how
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the community sort of is created. Cool.
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What are ROVs? With the DOVs,
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the stereo DOVs who swim in the transescts.
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We're also using ROVs lately to pretty much pull the diver out
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of the water and then put the ROV in the water.
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So the ROV stands for Remotely Operated Vehicle.
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They're pretty much an underwater drone.
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So that's the most simplest way to describe it.
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They come in all different shapes and sizes and
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then different price ranges but they're actually really cool.
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It's controlled from the boat.
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You have a controller or a joystick.
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You sit on the boat, you have a screen
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with the live feed of what the actual RV
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sees and then you can just drive around underwater.
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So if you're good at gaming it's pretty good.
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You have a joystick or an Xbox controller.
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So I just pretend like I'm playing Mario,
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it's a lot more expensive than that.
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Yeah, fair enough.
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So is using that will you eventually just use
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ROVs instead of having actual divers in the water?
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Yeah, that is the plan and that is
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definitely the way that the industry is going.
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Diving itself is quite
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dangerous and especially scientific diving
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is quite logistically hard to do, because you
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got to jump through a lot of hoops, you
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got to get a lot of paperwork done, which
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is understandable because it is quite risky with sharks.
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You got decompression sickness, you got all the
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dangers that you have with the ocean.
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So I think the end goal is pretty much
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get the divers out of the water, which some
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people aren't happy about because diving is pretty awesome.
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But at the end of the day you're putting an
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ROV in which can do the same job as divers.
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You have a much smaller team so it's
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much more cost effective and you're eliminating all
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these health and safety issues with diving.
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But I did want to ask, have you had a chance
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to do dive work before or is that not your area?
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Yeah, so I've done some dive work.
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So my actual honors research when I used
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the stereos did a direct comparison of stereo
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ROVs and stereo DOVs, which were able to
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find out that both methods are comparable.
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They produce a little bit different results but
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overall statistically they produce the same number of
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fish species and they also show you the
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same patterns in the differences between assemblages at
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different habitats and also at different locations and
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in different protection zones.
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So sanctuary and outside the sanctuary.
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But we also did find with that study that although
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they had similar results, which is great because they're comparable,
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the ROV was getting a lot closer to the fish.
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So we linked this with the fact that the
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ROV actually reduces some of the behavioral biases around
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scuba divers, because there's been studies that actually show
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that scuba divers, when they go down the bubbles,
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or even free divers with the bubbles that come
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up, fish associate that with spear fishing and
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the threat of actually being killed.
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So they flee and they run away. Pretty much.
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So we actually found the ROV got about half a meter
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closer to the fish and we also saw a lot
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less fish fleeing that was inside and outside the sanctuary
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zone, which is quite awesome to see.
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The fact that we can get closer to the fish
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increases our chance of getting a better view of them,
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a better shot of them and a better measurement.
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So just with your research and talking about the
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ROVs and DOVs and stuff, do you have any
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goals for the sustainable fishing and diving?
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Ultimately I really enjoy heading out going for a fish
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with my friends and family, but I also enjoy just
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going for a dive and not getting anything, just look
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looking at the biodiversity that's down there.
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So pretty much with my research and using the
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ROVs and getting a greater understanding of these
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environments, I hope that we can then make more informed
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decisions with management so that we can then put
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the correct management actions in place to ensure the
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longevity of the marine stocks.
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So yeah, I guess my end goal would be
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ensure that the correct and effective management is in
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place not only just for the fish and the
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overall health of the environment, but also to keep
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people, their overall marine habitat users happy, such as
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commercial fishers or recreational fishers.
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But I know that can be quite a tough
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situation because you got commercial fishers who take a
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lot of fish, you got recreational people who
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have their small limits and then you also have
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people who don't even abide by the limits.
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That is not sustainable at all.
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So I think ultimately it's great to have that happy medium
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where everyone's happy, but at the end of the day, as
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long as the environment is coming out on top and we're
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seeing our fish stocks and our marine life lasting, I think
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that'd be the end goal so we can enjoy what is
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on offer for years to come.
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Is it dumb if I ask
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what is sustainable fishing and diving?
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What I class as sustainable fishing
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is it's fishing that ensures that
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the stocks are going to last.
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So we're not going to go out there and
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catch all the fish at once, right, okay.
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We're actually just going to take what's needed or
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one or two fish at a time and then
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there's no need to take ten or 20 fish.
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Stocks aren't going to last.
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We need to keep it sustainable and
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make sure the stocks last for years.
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Okay, that makes sense.
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I never heard that term used before.
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So just heading back specifically more
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to the Ningaloo Reef itself.
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So we know that you've been a part
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of finding short spine crown of thorn starfish,
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which is a bit of a mouthful.
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So is it actually threatening the
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reef or is it harmless?
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And why is it such an important sort of discovery?
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Well, it's kind of a hard
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question to answer at this point.
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I'd say maybe it's not at the
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moment, but there's potential that it might.
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So it is related to the crown of thorn starfish
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that is known for taking out coral in the Great
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Barrier Reef and all the outbreaks over there.
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It's actually the same genus and same family.
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However, this one is a much shorter, it looks quite
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the same, but it has much shorter spines, and a
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different name, it's called Acanthaster brevispinus.
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Wow, that is a mouthful and a half.
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It's pretty much the more uncommon and less
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known version of the crown of thorn starfish.
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But they've also been known to be omnivores.
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So studies have shown that there's
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actually no threat to the reef.
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Some studies have come out to say
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maybe they aren't just omnivorous, they actually
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do prey and there's been evidence of
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them actually eating scallops and soft corals.
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But at this stage, hard corals, which are the
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pretty ones, which everyone cares about, are still safe.
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CSIRO did find these short spine crown of thorn starfish
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at Ningaloo for the first time in 2006
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and then towed transects in 2015
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actually saw them again.
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At this time we actually saw them on mushroom corals.
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So there's these solitary corals that grow by
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themselves but in big fields and they're called
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mushroom corals because they look a bit like
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a mushroom and that's called a Cycloseris.
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They found them on there in about 40 meters.
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So when we were doing my research, that was
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one of the habitats I actually went to.
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So while we're doing the studies there and actually
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at other habitats too, we were looking for
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these starfish to see if they still are there
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and we actually came across one which we're quite
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surprised and excited about over a starfish.
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So we came back a couple of weeks later and
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did like a starfish mission to actually find it again.
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We found another one which actually had one arm
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less, so this one had the first one had
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13 arms and the second one had 12 arms.
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Okay, hang on, so what do
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these fish actually look like?
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It's looks like a normal starfish,
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but it's got fat stumpy arms and it's
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got all these little spikes all over it.
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00:10:50,225 --> 00:10:51,888
Right, because my version of the starfish is
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the cute ones you can pat at Seaworld.
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00:10:53,237 --> 00:10:56,468
Well, these ones aren't as cute, but yeah,
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so we actually were able to find one
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and it was on the Cycloseris bed.
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So my supervisor has this idea that they're actually
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eating these corals because we've seen them before in
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photos with dead bleached looking corals around.
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So we actually managed to come back a day later and
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put a fishing net on the end of the ROV and
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we scooped it up and we brought it back up to
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the surface and when we had a look at it, we
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saw that it had Cycloseris actually inside its mouth.
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The way it actually eats the coral is it pulls
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its gut out and wraps around the coral and excretes
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like an enzyme that then allows them to absorb the
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nutrients from the coral, like a liquified coral version.
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So this was pretty much the first confirmed
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sighting of this short spine crown of thorns
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starfish actually eating a hard coral.
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We're classing it as a coralavore now.
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There has been some recent sightings in the Great
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Barrier Reef of six in a small aggregation, and
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00:12:05,785 --> 00:12:09,788
there's also been some historical sightings of them, of
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their short spine crown of thorns being seen as
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in local aggregations of 20 living together with the
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bad crown of thorn starfish.
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So this does show that they are
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potentially in densities, deep in densities, higher
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than what we actually previously thought.
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So it's quite scary.
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So it's sort of that, maybe.
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So if there was to be that potential
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outbreak, which there is cases that could happen,
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it could lead to significantly detrimental effects on
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the mesophotic corals, such as the mushroom corals.
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Yeah.
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And because of that potential ability to have
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an outbreak, I'm assuming it's a 'closely monitor
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00:12:52,447 --> 00:12:54,550
all the time' type of situation?
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At the moment, it's not, because
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it's only just really been found.
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00:12:58,201 --> 00:13:00,012
So we're actually in the
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process of getting this published.
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I think once this gets published, then
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the ball might start rolling a bit.
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But at the moment, the whole idea is that these are
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not a threat at all and we seem to worry about
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00:13:11,149 --> 00:13:15,168
the other crown of thorns, but in reality, this threat just
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might be under our nose, just sort of waiting to happen.
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Yeah.
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00:13:18,193 --> 00:13:19,968
And especially because the Ningaloo Reef is
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so aesthetic, that's part of it's charm, it's aesthetic.
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So if they're eating all the pretty corals...
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And it's definitely not a good PR
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00:13:28,885 --> 00:13:31,524
thing that spreads that the corals are
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dying, everyone gets angry and gets upset.
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See what happens when it all gets published. Yeah. Wow.
312
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:43,032
So what exactly is your PhD research?
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00:13:43,033 --> 00:13:45,768
Yes, so I'm actually building off the research that
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was done from the last projects, which were actually
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00:13:49,497 --> 00:13:51,756
so I'm actually using the habitats that they found.
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00:13:51,757 --> 00:13:53,804
I'm actually going to go to these individual
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habitats and take a deeper look and see
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what's actually happening in terms of the ecology
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00:13:57,667 --> 00:14:02,710
and the ecosystem, the ecosystem's processes.
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So one of the papers that was produced by the
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00:14:05,969 --> 00:14:10,688
last Ningloo Outlook, Deep Reef student, he classified all the
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different habitats, we've gone through and picked out six broad
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00:14:13,499 --> 00:14:16,644
ones, which is coral, macro algae, rhodolith beds, which are
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00:14:16,645 --> 00:14:21,844
just little rocky rubble, which has a coraline algae that
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00:14:21,845 --> 00:14:25,016
grows on them, which is a habitat. Cycloseris, which is
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00:14:25,017 --> 00:14:30,168
the mushroom corals that we saw the starfish eating, as
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00:14:30,169 --> 00:14:31,864
well as sponge and sand, because there's a lot of
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00:14:31,865 --> 00:14:32,456
sand up there.
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00:14:32,457 --> 00:14:35,532
There's a lot of nothing.
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00:14:35,533 --> 00:14:39,218
By conducting various surveys using the ROV
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00:14:39,219 --> 00:14:41,202
things such as BRUVs, which are underwater
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00:14:41,203 --> 00:14:47,282
videos, I'm looking to identify the ecological
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00:14:47,283 --> 00:14:50,368
functions and processes that are driving their
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stability, maintenance and diversity throughout these habitats.
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00:14:54,711 --> 00:14:57,088
So pretty much, if these habitats and the
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fish species, the species and invertebrates that are
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00:14:59,569 --> 00:15:02,144
within these habitats are as important as we
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think they are, it's essential that we gain
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00:15:04,667 --> 00:15:06,772
understanding of what's actually happening there.
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00:15:06,773 --> 00:15:08,938
What processes are driving changes? What processes
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00:15:08,939 --> 00:15:11,834
are keeping them the same and what's
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00:15:11,835 --> 00:15:13,556
actually making each habitat different?
343
00:15:13,557 --> 00:15:16,030
Why are different species going to each habitat?
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00:15:17,010 --> 00:15:19,368
Once we have this greater understanding, we can ensure that
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we put the right management in place, because once we
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00:15:22,649 --> 00:15:24,062
get there, even though there's not a lot of coral
347
00:15:24,063 --> 00:15:27,320
out there, the sponges are quite amazing.
348
00:15:28,330 --> 00:15:32,028
Ningaloo is actually like a global biodiversity hotspot for
349
00:15:32,029 --> 00:15:36,908
sponges, has over 250 species of sponges, which
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00:15:36,909 --> 00:15:38,816
is projected to even be close to 800
351
00:15:38,817 --> 00:15:42,470
species, just because everything's new to science.
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00:15:42,471 --> 00:15:44,608
And although, again, there's not really many of
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00:15:44,609 --> 00:15:47,734
these corals, these sponges are still important habitats,
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00:15:47,735 --> 00:15:52,288
like three dimensional structure for juvenile fish and
355
00:15:52,289 --> 00:15:53,898
even a lot of their target fish.
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00:15:53,899 --> 00:15:56,868
We see a lot of coral trout, red emperor, as
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00:15:56,869 --> 00:15:59,450
well as spangoes that are hanging around these sponges.
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So once we know which areas are key and important,
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00:16:04,873 --> 00:16:07,342
we can ensure that we push this idea to management
360
00:16:07,343 --> 00:16:10,216
and seeing if we can get these areas protected. Wow.
361
00:16:10,217 --> 00:16:11,192
Cool.
362
00:16:11,193 --> 00:16:12,450
Very fancy.
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00:16:14,070 --> 00:16:15,288
That's it.
364
00:16:15,289 --> 00:16:17,032
In terms of the focus of your
365
00:16:17,033 --> 00:16:19,848
PhD, which you're currently still doing?
366
00:16:19,849 --> 00:16:22,402
Yes, doing about halfway. Brilliant.
367
00:16:22,403 --> 00:16:24,108
Are you excited to be a doctor by the end of it?
368
00:16:24,109 --> 00:16:25,708
Yes, I'm just looking for my
369
00:16:25,709 --> 00:16:27,196
mail coming and saying, Dr.
370
00:16:27,197 --> 00:16:31,488
Logan. You have to frame it on your wall.
371
00:16:31,489 --> 00:16:33,366
Don't you have to do like a ten minute
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00:16:33,367 --> 00:16:36,550
where you sort of argue? Like a debate?
373
00:16:36,551 --> 00:16:40,512
Yeah, you got like, a defense that when it comes
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00:16:40,513 --> 00:16:42,112
in, you go do, like well, what we we also
375
00:16:42,113 --> 00:16:45,072
call it a milestone three, where you present everything.
376
00:16:45,073 --> 00:16:46,980
Oh, wow, it's a big talk.
377
00:16:46,981 --> 00:16:49,108
And then everyone asks you questions at the end
378
00:16:49,109 --> 00:16:50,510
and that's when it gets a bit scary.
379
00:16:52,130 --> 00:16:53,840
Do you get to have notes, though?
380
00:16:54,770 --> 00:16:56,824
You can have notes, but it doesn't look very good
381
00:16:56,825 --> 00:17:00,648
if you have notes.
382
00:17:00,649 --> 00:17:01,992
You have to know it inside it?
383
00:17:01,993 --> 00:17:05,510
That's it, it becomes your life.
384
00:17:05,511 --> 00:17:07,170
It's like your little baby.
385
00:17:09,210 --> 00:17:11,483
But in terms of that PhD, one
386
00:17:11,484 --> 00:17:15,986
of the focuses is those mesophotic ecosystems. Yep, yep.
387
00:17:15,987 --> 00:17:18,348
How are you thinking they're going to help
388
00:17:18,349 --> 00:17:21,394
us to discover more of Ningaloo reef?
389
00:17:21,395 --> 00:17:24,768
So the overall goal of my PhD is pretty much take
390
00:17:24,769 --> 00:17:27,574
a deeper look at the ecology of these mesophotic reefs.
391
00:17:27,575 --> 00:17:29,872
So do you guys even know what mesophotic is? No.
392
00:17:29,873 --> 00:17:33,668
We would love an explanation just to clear it up.
393
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:35,988
So, yeah, a mesophotic habitat is a tropical or
394
00:17:35,989 --> 00:17:39,892
a subtropical, light dependent environment that occurs from about
395
00:17:39,893 --> 00:17:42,602
30 meters deep, down to lower photic zone.
396
00:17:42,603 --> 00:17:46,632
So it's a low light environment, but there
397
00:17:46,633 --> 00:17:48,808
still is light, but it's not very light.
398
00:17:48,809 --> 00:17:50,942
And if you look at the word mesophotic, meso
399
00:17:50,943 --> 00:17:54,580
means intermediate, and photic means light; intermediate light.
400
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:58,204
It's pretty much characterised by the
401
00:17:58,205 --> 00:18:01,154
presence of still having photosynthetic corals,
402
00:18:01,155 --> 00:18:03,954
but they aren't dominant.
403
00:18:03,955 --> 00:18:05,628
They are there, and there's enough light for
404
00:18:05,629 --> 00:18:07,986
them to grow, but they aren't dominant.
405
00:18:07,987 --> 00:18:09,788
A lot of other invertebrates tend to
406
00:18:09,789 --> 00:18:12,610
take over, such as sponges, filter feeders,
407
00:18:12,611 --> 00:18:15,008
algae takeover, and then corals are still
408
00:18:15,009 --> 00:18:16,886
there, but they're definitely not the dominant.
409
00:18:16,887 --> 00:18:20,528
Right, okay. So why did you
410
00:18:20,529 --> 00:18:22,810
want to study those ecosystems?
411
00:18:24,830 --> 00:18:27,108
Mesophotic ecosystems globally are
412
00:18:27,109 --> 00:18:28,122
pretty much understudied.
413
00:18:28,123 --> 00:18:30,212
It's only been within the last decade or two
414
00:18:30,213 --> 00:18:32,010
that have actually got a bit of attention.
415
00:18:32,011 --> 00:18:35,572
And one of those reasons is the fact
416
00:18:35,573 --> 00:18:38,088
that with the advancements in technology, we do
417
00:18:38,089 --> 00:18:40,152
have things like ROVs now, which can actually
418
00:18:40,153 --> 00:18:42,152
survey these habitats in a cost effective way,
419
00:18:42,153 --> 00:18:44,150
because previously it's been quite expensive.
420
00:18:44,151 --> 00:18:46,536
It's too deep for scuba divers to go down,
421
00:18:46,537 --> 00:18:48,648
but as soon as you start getting more people
422
00:18:48,649 --> 00:18:50,866
and more equipment, everything gets more expensive.
423
00:18:50,867 --> 00:18:53,394
So now this stuff is readily available, it's
424
00:18:53,395 --> 00:18:54,988
much more cost effective to actually get out
425
00:18:54,989 --> 00:18:56,828
there and we can survey them.
426
00:18:56,829 --> 00:19:00,242
But the research in the mesophotic
427
00:19:00,243 --> 00:19:02,198
sort of industry is very patchy.
428
00:19:02,199 --> 00:19:04,368
So some areas have a lot of research.
429
00:19:04,369 --> 00:19:07,568
So areas such as the Atlantic and in particular
430
00:19:07,569 --> 00:19:10,228
the Caribbean have so much research that they can
431
00:19:10,229 --> 00:19:14,130
make generalisations, they can make informed management decisions.
432
00:19:14,131 --> 00:19:15,458
However, areas such as the Indian Ocean
433
00:19:15,459 --> 00:19:18,106
still remain relatively understudied.
434
00:19:18,107 --> 00:19:21,330
And in particular, Ningaloo itself
435
00:19:21,331 --> 00:19:24,292
has minimal mesophotic work.
436
00:19:24,293 --> 00:19:27,688
The past Ningaloo Outlook and WAMSI node, which
437
00:19:27,689 --> 00:19:31,816
is the WA Marine Science Institution, were two
438
00:19:31,817 --> 00:19:35,628
large projects which actually consisted of most of
439
00:19:35,629 --> 00:19:38,330
the mesophotic research that has occurred.
440
00:19:38,331 --> 00:19:40,642
Although a lot of this research just focused
441
00:19:40,643 --> 00:19:46,092
on mapping and identifying these habitats, looking at
442
00:19:46,093 --> 00:19:48,306
the patterning and distribution of these habitats.
443
00:19:48,307 --> 00:19:50,854
And they did sort of touch on coral recruitment.
444
00:19:50,855 --> 00:19:52,288
And this is mainly because of an
445
00:19:52,289 --> 00:19:55,894
idea called the 'Deep Reef Refugia' hypothesis.
446
00:19:55,895 --> 00:19:58,048
So this idea that these deep reefs in
447
00:19:58,049 --> 00:20:00,912
the mesophobic habitat, which do have corals, are
448
00:20:00,913 --> 00:20:05,162
somewhat sheltered from environmental effects, such as storm
449
00:20:05,163 --> 00:20:07,418
events or climate change or even human effects
450
00:20:07,419 --> 00:20:08,602
because they're a bit deeper.
451
00:20:08,603 --> 00:20:11,305
So there's this idea that because they're somewhat an
452
00:20:11,306 --> 00:20:14,008
insurance population there, they're intact still, that
453
00:20:14,009 --> 00:20:18,104
they can actually reseed the population, they can
454
00:20:18,105 --> 00:20:24,710
actually reseed the shallow population and actually help
455
00:20:24,711 --> 00:20:28,354
replenish the damaged coral reefs.
456
00:20:28,355 --> 00:20:30,348
But it's quite a debatable topic and
457
00:20:30,349 --> 00:20:33,042
it relies on something called vertical connectivity.
458
00:20:33,043 --> 00:20:35,452
So how connected the shallow to the deep is
459
00:20:35,453 --> 00:20:38,674
and it relies on the recruits, the little tiny
460
00:20:38,675 --> 00:20:41,346
corals being able to get from deep to shallow.
461
00:20:41,347 --> 00:20:44,448
So the Ningaloo research actually suggests that that's not
462
00:20:44,449 --> 00:20:47,404
very likely, but it's a pretty interesting topic and
463
00:20:47,405 --> 00:20:50,528
that's another reason why the mesophotic sort of getting
464
00:20:50,529 --> 00:20:52,164
a bit more attention because there's a potential that
465
00:20:52,165 --> 00:20:55,562
it might better help these somewhat damaged areas.
466
00:20:55,563 --> 00:20:58,084
But one of the consensus sort of in
467
00:20:58,085 --> 00:21:00,548
the industry is that it's sort of a
468
00:21:00,549 --> 00:21:03,040
locational or a species specific thing.
469
00:21:03,570 --> 00:21:06,346
So it depends on the location or the species.
470
00:21:06,347 --> 00:21:08,318
The species got to be a general species
471
00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:10,850
that can go in both deep and shallow areas.
472
00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:13,368
But I do want to know just because of that
473
00:21:13,369 --> 00:21:16,332
lack of research at Ningaloo, is that kind of why
474
00:21:16,333 --> 00:21:18,680
you wanted to join the Ningaloo Outlook project?
475
00:21:20,570 --> 00:21:25,602
It was just pretty much a perfect opportunity to join.
476
00:21:25,603 --> 00:21:28,124
I thought it was almost like
477
00:21:28,125 --> 00:21:29,564
a once in a lifetime opportunity.
478
00:21:29,565 --> 00:21:32,144
Working with a company such as CSIRO, it's a
479
00:21:32,145 --> 00:21:34,576
huge backing and also being involved in the project
480
00:21:34,577 --> 00:21:37,530
such as Ningaloo Outlook which is backed by BHP (now Woodside).
481
00:21:38,430 --> 00:21:39,728
I'm pretty lucky to be in this
482
00:21:39,729 --> 00:21:42,998
position and I personally, I love Ningaloo.
483
00:21:42,999 --> 00:21:44,468
I go up there for holidays, I've been up there
484
00:21:44,469 --> 00:21:48,084
before, I've had experience up there with some uni
485
00:21:48,085 --> 00:21:49,880
projects, as well as my honors project
486
00:21:49,881 --> 00:21:52,276
were all up there so I thought the perfect chance to
487
00:21:52,277 --> 00:21:55,092
actually do something that I love and in some way that
488
00:21:55,093 --> 00:21:59,492
already have kind of half an idea of what I'm doing.
489
00:21:59,493 --> 00:22:00,452
Definitely.
490
00:22:00,453 --> 00:22:02,080
Oh that's so cool.
491
00:22:03,170 --> 00:22:05,316
We are all done.
492
00:22:05,317 --> 00:22:07,804
Thanks so much for talking with us.
493
00:22:07,805 --> 00:22:08,908
That's all good.
494
00:22:08,909 --> 00:22:11,960
Thanks having me guys, thank you so much.
00:00:00,250 --> 00:00:01,636
Hi, I'm Mya.
2
00:00:01,637 --> 00:00:05,010
Hi, I'm Georgia, and this is Ningaloo Outlook.
3
00:00:05,011 --> 00:00:07,604
Georgia and I are university students who share a
4
00:00:07,605 --> 00:00:09,876
love of books, the beach and most of all
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turtles, especially if they're tiny. Travel with us deep
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below the waves to explore what hidden treasures lie
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among the reef, whales, turtles and fauna.
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A special thanks to CSIRO, Woodside and the
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Ningaloo Reef Research Team for chatting with us
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about the magic of the reef.
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So let's dive into it.
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We are here today with Logan Hellmrich,
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a PhD student at Curtin University who
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works on the Ningaloo Outlook program. Hi, Logan.
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Thanks for coming.
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Hey guys, how's it going? Thanks for having me.
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Yeah, anytime.
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So your honors research is about
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diver operated stereo video systems. Yeah.
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Can you tell us a bit about it?
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Because I don't think it involves playing
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Harry Styles through the stereo to provide
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the turtles with some tunes.
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No, it definitely doesn't.
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It does involve stereos, but probably
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not the stereos you expect.
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So disappointed.
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Diver operated videos, we can pretty much we dumb it
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down to DOV's, so we call them DOV's and then
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the stereo part is to do with the cameras.
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So we have diver operated videos, so we have scuba
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divers who have these systems and they swim transects or
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underwater lines pretty much, and they count fish.
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So the stereo part is pretty much
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two cameras that are synchronized and calibrated
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that allow for 3D measurements of fish.
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It's all to do with photogrammetry.
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When we post analyze it, we can use our
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software which we can actually click on the tip
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of the fish and the tail of the fish
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and we can actually get the length measurement.
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We also get how far away it is and we
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get a precise, like how precise the evaluator is.
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So that's where the stereo part comes in.
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It's quite an accurate way of counting fish
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because we actually have a permanent record that
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we can come back later, count the fish
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and we know what's actually there.
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Because we see it.
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However, one downfall of that is that
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it does take a lot of time.
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There's just hours and hours of just
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watching fish videos, clicking, pausing, back and fowards.
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But it is rewarding when you see a nice
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school of fish come past, oh that's different.
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Or a shark comes past, or a stingray, it keeps you interested then.
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And so from that can you see what type of fish it is?
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You do have the limits of visibility, so
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if the water visibility is not great, you
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sometimes can't really see the fish.
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But if you're close enough to it,
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you got to see what species is.
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We have plenty of identification books that we can
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go through and then we do process of elimination.
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And once you know most of the fish, it's just
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like it just rolls and you can do it.
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And so using this system, what do
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you hope to find out from it?
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So using these systems
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the main goal is for us to count and measure the fish.
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So we get like a stock evaluation of how
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many fish are there, how many species are there.
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We also look at the assemblage composition.
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So pretty much at each site, what numbers
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of species mixed with the numbers of individuals
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and how is that different between each site.
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So sort of looking at how
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the community sort of is created. Cool.
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What are ROVs? With the DOVs,
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the stereo DOVs who swim in the transescts.
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We're also using ROVs lately to pretty much pull the diver out
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of the water and then put the ROV in the water.
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So the ROV stands for Remotely Operated Vehicle.
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They're pretty much an underwater drone.
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So that's the most simplest way to describe it.
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They come in all different shapes and sizes and
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then different price ranges but they're actually really cool.
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It's controlled from the boat.
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You have a controller or a joystick.
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You sit on the boat, you have a screen
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with the live feed of what the actual RV
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sees and then you can just drive around underwater.
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So if you're good at gaming it's pretty good.
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You have a joystick or an Xbox controller.
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So I just pretend like I'm playing Mario,
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it's a lot more expensive than that.
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Yeah, fair enough.
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So is using that will you eventually just use
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ROVs instead of having actual divers in the water?
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Yeah, that is the plan and that is
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definitely the way that the industry is going.
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Diving itself is quite
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dangerous and especially scientific diving
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is quite logistically hard to do, because you
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got to jump through a lot of hoops, you
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got to get a lot of paperwork done, which
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is understandable because it is quite risky with sharks.
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You got decompression sickness, you got all the
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dangers that you have with the ocean.
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So I think the end goal is pretty much
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get the divers out of the water, which some
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people aren't happy about because diving is pretty awesome.
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But at the end of the day you're putting an
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ROV in which can do the same job as divers.
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You have a much smaller team so it's
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much more cost effective and you're eliminating all
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these health and safety issues with diving.
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But I did want to ask, have you had a chance
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to do dive work before or is that not your area?
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Yeah, so I've done some dive work.
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So my actual honors research when I used
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the stereos did a direct comparison of stereo
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ROVs and stereo DOVs, which were able to
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find out that both methods are comparable.
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They produce a little bit different results but
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overall statistically they produce the same number of
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fish species and they also show you the
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same patterns in the differences between assemblages at
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different habitats and also at different locations and
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in different protection zones.
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So sanctuary and outside the sanctuary.
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But we also did find with that study that although
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they had similar results, which is great because they're comparable,
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the ROV was getting a lot closer to the fish.
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So we linked this with the fact that the
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ROV actually reduces some of the behavioral biases around
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scuba divers, because there's been studies that actually show
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that scuba divers, when they go down the bubbles,
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or even free divers with the bubbles that come
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up, fish associate that with spear fishing and
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the threat of actually being killed.
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So they flee and they run away. Pretty much.
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So we actually found the ROV got about half a meter
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closer to the fish and we also saw a lot
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less fish fleeing that was inside and outside the sanctuary
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zone, which is quite awesome to see.
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The fact that we can get closer to the fish
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increases our chance of getting a better view of them,
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a better shot of them and a better measurement.
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So just with your research and talking about the
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ROVs and DOVs and stuff, do you have any
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goals for the sustainable fishing and diving?
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Ultimately I really enjoy heading out going for a fish
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with my friends and family, but I also enjoy just
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going for a dive and not getting anything, just look
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looking at the biodiversity that's down there.
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So pretty much with my research and using the
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ROVs and getting a greater understanding of these
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environments, I hope that we can then make more informed
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decisions with management so that we can then put
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the correct management actions in place to ensure the
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longevity of the marine stocks.
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So yeah, I guess my end goal would be
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ensure that the correct and effective management is in
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place not only just for the fish and the
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overall health of the environment, but also to keep
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people, their overall marine habitat users happy, such as
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commercial fishers or recreational fishers.
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But I know that can be quite a tough
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situation because you got commercial fishers who take a
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lot of fish, you got recreational people who
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have their small limits and then you also have
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people who don't even abide by the limits.
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That is not sustainable at all.
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So I think ultimately it's great to have that happy medium
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where everyone's happy, but at the end of the day, as
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long as the environment is coming out on top and we're
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seeing our fish stocks and our marine life lasting, I think
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that'd be the end goal so we can enjoy what is
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on offer for years to come.
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Is it dumb if I ask
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what is sustainable fishing and diving?
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What I class as sustainable fishing
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is it's fishing that ensures that
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the stocks are going to last.
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So we're not going to go out there and
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catch all the fish at once, right, okay.
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We're actually just going to take what's needed or
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one or two fish at a time and then
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there's no need to take ten or 20 fish.
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Stocks aren't going to last.
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We need to keep it sustainable and
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make sure the stocks last for years.
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Okay, that makes sense.
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I never heard that term used before.
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So just heading back specifically more
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to the Ningaloo Reef itself.
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So we know that you've been a part
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of finding short spine crown of thorn starfish,
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which is a bit of a mouthful.
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So is it actually threatening the
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reef or is it harmless?
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And why is it such an important sort of discovery?
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Well, it's kind of a hard
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question to answer at this point.
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I'd say maybe it's not at the
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moment, but there's potential that it might.
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So it is related to the crown of thorn starfish
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that is known for taking out coral in the Great
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Barrier Reef and all the outbreaks over there.
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It's actually the same genus and same family.
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However, this one is a much shorter, it looks quite
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the same, but it has much shorter spines, and a
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different name, it's called Acanthaster brevispinus.
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Wow, that is a mouthful and a half.
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It's pretty much the more uncommon and less
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known version of the crown of thorn starfish.
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But they've also been known to be omnivores.
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So studies have shown that there's
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actually no threat to the reef.
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Some studies have come out to say
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maybe they aren't just omnivorous, they actually
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do prey and there's been evidence of
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them actually eating scallops and soft corals.
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But at this stage, hard corals, which are the
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pretty ones, which everyone cares about, are still safe.
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CSIRO did find these short spine crown of thorn starfish
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at Ningaloo for the first time in 2006
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and then towed transects in 2015
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actually saw them again.
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At this time we actually saw them on mushroom corals.
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So there's these solitary corals that grow by
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themselves but in big fields and they're called
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mushroom corals because they look a bit like
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a mushroom and that's called a Cycloseris.
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They found them on there in about 40 meters.
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So when we were doing my research, that was
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one of the habitats I actually went to.
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So while we're doing the studies there and actually
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at other habitats too, we were looking for
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these starfish to see if they still are there
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and we actually came across one which we're quite
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surprised and excited about over a starfish.
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So we came back a couple of weeks later and
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did like a starfish mission to actually find it again.
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We found another one which actually had one arm
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less, so this one had the first one had
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13 arms and the second one had 12 arms.
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Okay, hang on, so what do
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these fish actually look like?
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It's looks like a normal starfish,
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but it's got fat stumpy arms and it's
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got all these little spikes all over it.
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Right, because my version of the starfish is
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the cute ones you can pat at Seaworld.
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Well, these ones aren't as cute, but yeah,
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so we actually were able to find one
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and it was on the Cycloseris bed.
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So my supervisor has this idea that they're actually
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eating these corals because we've seen them before in
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photos with dead bleached looking corals around.
262
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So we actually managed to come back a day later and
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put a fishing net on the end of the ROV and
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we scooped it up and we brought it back up to
265
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the surface and when we had a look at it, we
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saw that it had Cycloseris actually inside its mouth.
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00:11:29,450 --> 00:11:32,038
The way it actually eats the coral is it pulls
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its gut out and wraps around the coral and excretes
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like an enzyme that then allows them to absorb the
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nutrients from the coral, like a liquified coral version.
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So this was pretty much the first confirmed
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00:11:45,083 --> 00:11:48,666
sighting of this short spine crown of thorns
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starfish actually eating a hard coral.
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We're classing it as a coralavore now.
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There has been some recent sightings in the Great
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Barrier Reef of six in a small aggregation, and
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00:12:05,785 --> 00:12:09,788
there's also been some historical sightings of them, of
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00:12:09,789 --> 00:12:12,332
their short spine crown of thorns being seen as
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00:12:12,333 --> 00:12:16,748
in local aggregations of 20 living together with the
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bad crown of thorn starfish.
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00:12:18,791 --> 00:12:21,456
So this does show that they are
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00:12:21,457 --> 00:12:24,832
potentially in densities, deep in densities, higher
283
00:12:24,833 --> 00:12:27,950
than what we actually previously thought.
284
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So it's quite scary.
285
00:12:29,143 --> 00:12:30,996
So it's sort of that, maybe.
286
00:12:30,997 --> 00:12:32,522
So if there was to be that potential
287
00:12:32,523 --> 00:12:35,840
outbreak, which there is cases that could happen,
288
00:12:36,690 --> 00:12:41,348
it could lead to significantly detrimental effects on
289
00:12:41,349 --> 00:12:44,394
the mesophotic corals, such as the mushroom corals.
290
00:12:44,395 --> 00:12:45,040
Yeah.
291
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:49,128
And because of that potential ability to have
292
00:12:49,129 --> 00:12:52,446
an outbreak, I'm assuming it's a 'closely monitor
293
00:12:52,447 --> 00:12:54,550
all the time' type of situation?
294
00:12:54,551 --> 00:12:56,312
At the moment, it's not, because
295
00:12:56,313 --> 00:12:58,200
it's only just really been found.
296
00:12:58,201 --> 00:13:00,012
So we're actually in the
297
00:13:00,013 --> 00:13:01,282
process of getting this published.
298
00:13:01,283 --> 00:13:03,084
I think once this gets published, then
299
00:13:03,085 --> 00:13:04,732
the ball might start rolling a bit.
300
00:13:04,733 --> 00:13:08,188
But at the moment, the whole idea is that these are
301
00:13:08,189 --> 00:13:11,148
not a threat at all and we seem to worry about
302
00:13:11,149 --> 00:13:15,168
the other crown of thorns, but in reality, this threat just
303
00:13:15,169 --> 00:13:17,856
might be under our nose, just sort of waiting to happen.
304
00:13:17,857 --> 00:13:18,192
Yeah.
305
00:13:18,193 --> 00:13:19,968
And especially because the Ningaloo Reef is
306
00:13:19,969 --> 00:13:22,634
so aesthetic, that's part of it's charm, it's aesthetic.
307
00:13:22,635 --> 00:13:25,120
So if they're eating all the pretty corals...
308
00:13:25,650 --> 00:13:28,884
And it's definitely not a good PR
309
00:13:28,885 --> 00:13:31,524
thing that spreads that the corals are
310
00:13:31,525 --> 00:13:34,370
dying, everyone gets angry and gets upset.
311
00:13:35,510 --> 00:13:38,420
See what happens when it all gets published. Yeah. Wow.
312
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:43,032
So what exactly is your PhD research?
313
00:13:43,033 --> 00:13:45,768
Yes, so I'm actually building off the research that
314
00:13:45,769 --> 00:13:49,496
was done from the last projects, which were actually
315
00:13:49,497 --> 00:13:51,756
so I'm actually using the habitats that they found.
316
00:13:51,757 --> 00:13:53,804
I'm actually going to go to these individual
317
00:13:53,805 --> 00:13:55,708
habitats and take a deeper look and see
318
00:13:55,709 --> 00:13:57,666
what's actually happening in terms of the ecology
319
00:13:57,667 --> 00:14:02,710
and the ecosystem, the ecosystem's processes.
320
00:14:02,711 --> 00:14:05,968
So one of the papers that was produced by the
321
00:14:05,969 --> 00:14:10,688
last Ningloo Outlook, Deep Reef student, he classified all the
322
00:14:10,689 --> 00:14:13,498
different habitats, we've gone through and picked out six broad
323
00:14:13,499 --> 00:14:16,644
ones, which is coral, macro algae, rhodolith beds, which are
324
00:14:16,645 --> 00:14:21,844
just little rocky rubble, which has a coraline algae that
325
00:14:21,845 --> 00:14:25,016
grows on them, which is a habitat. Cycloseris, which is
326
00:14:25,017 --> 00:14:30,168
the mushroom corals that we saw the starfish eating, as
327
00:14:30,169 --> 00:14:31,864
well as sponge and sand, because there's a lot of
328
00:14:31,865 --> 00:14:32,456
sand up there.
329
00:14:32,457 --> 00:14:35,532
There's a lot of nothing.
330
00:14:35,533 --> 00:14:39,218
By conducting various surveys using the ROV
331
00:14:39,219 --> 00:14:41,202
things such as BRUVs, which are underwater
332
00:14:41,203 --> 00:14:47,282
videos, I'm looking to identify the ecological
333
00:14:47,283 --> 00:14:50,368
functions and processes that are driving their
334
00:14:50,369 --> 00:14:54,710
stability, maintenance and diversity throughout these habitats.
335
00:14:54,711 --> 00:14:57,088
So pretty much, if these habitats and the
336
00:14:57,089 --> 00:14:59,568
fish species, the species and invertebrates that are
337
00:14:59,569 --> 00:15:02,144
within these habitats are as important as we
338
00:15:02,145 --> 00:15:04,666
think they are, it's essential that we gain
339
00:15:04,667 --> 00:15:06,772
understanding of what's actually happening there.
340
00:15:06,773 --> 00:15:08,938
What processes are driving changes? What processes
341
00:15:08,939 --> 00:15:11,834
are keeping them the same and what's
342
00:15:11,835 --> 00:15:13,556
actually making each habitat different?
343
00:15:13,557 --> 00:15:16,030
Why are different species going to each habitat?
344
00:15:17,010 --> 00:15:19,368
Once we have this greater understanding, we can ensure that
345
00:15:19,369 --> 00:15:22,648
we put the right management in place, because once we
346
00:15:22,649 --> 00:15:24,062
get there, even though there's not a lot of coral
347
00:15:24,063 --> 00:15:27,320
out there, the sponges are quite amazing.
348
00:15:28,330 --> 00:15:32,028
Ningaloo is actually like a global biodiversity hotspot for
349
00:15:32,029 --> 00:15:36,908
sponges, has over 250 species of sponges, which
350
00:15:36,909 --> 00:15:38,816
is projected to even be close to 800
351
00:15:38,817 --> 00:15:42,470
species, just because everything's new to science.
352
00:15:42,471 --> 00:15:44,608
And although, again, there's not really many of
353
00:15:44,609 --> 00:15:47,734
these corals, these sponges are still important habitats,
354
00:15:47,735 --> 00:15:52,288
like three dimensional structure for juvenile fish and
355
00:15:52,289 --> 00:15:53,898
even a lot of their target fish.
356
00:15:53,899 --> 00:15:56,868
We see a lot of coral trout, red emperor, as
357
00:15:56,869 --> 00:15:59,450
well as spangoes that are hanging around these sponges.
358
00:15:59,451 --> 00:16:04,872
So once we know which areas are key and important,
359
00:16:04,873 --> 00:16:07,342
we can ensure that we push this idea to management
360
00:16:07,343 --> 00:16:10,216
and seeing if we can get these areas protected. Wow.
361
00:16:10,217 --> 00:16:11,192
Cool.
362
00:16:11,193 --> 00:16:12,450
Very fancy.
363
00:16:14,070 --> 00:16:15,288
That's it.
364
00:16:15,289 --> 00:16:17,032
In terms of the focus of your
365
00:16:17,033 --> 00:16:19,848
PhD, which you're currently still doing?
366
00:16:19,849 --> 00:16:22,402
Yes, doing about halfway. Brilliant.
367
00:16:22,403 --> 00:16:24,108
Are you excited to be a doctor by the end of it?
368
00:16:24,109 --> 00:16:25,708
Yes, I'm just looking for my
369
00:16:25,709 --> 00:16:27,196
mail coming and saying, Dr.
370
00:16:27,197 --> 00:16:31,488
Logan. You have to frame it on your wall.
371
00:16:31,489 --> 00:16:33,366
Don't you have to do like a ten minute
372
00:16:33,367 --> 00:16:36,550
where you sort of argue? Like a debate?
373
00:16:36,551 --> 00:16:40,512
Yeah, you got like, a defense that when it comes
374
00:16:40,513 --> 00:16:42,112
in, you go do, like well, what we we also
375
00:16:42,113 --> 00:16:45,072
call it a milestone three, where you present everything.
376
00:16:45,073 --> 00:16:46,980
Oh, wow, it's a big talk.
377
00:16:46,981 --> 00:16:49,108
And then everyone asks you questions at the end
378
00:16:49,109 --> 00:16:50,510
and that's when it gets a bit scary.
379
00:16:52,130 --> 00:16:53,840
Do you get to have notes, though?
380
00:16:54,770 --> 00:16:56,824
You can have notes, but it doesn't look very good
381
00:16:56,825 --> 00:17:00,648
if you have notes.
382
00:17:00,649 --> 00:17:01,992
You have to know it inside it?
383
00:17:01,993 --> 00:17:05,510
That's it, it becomes your life.
384
00:17:05,511 --> 00:17:07,170
It's like your little baby.
385
00:17:09,210 --> 00:17:11,483
But in terms of that PhD, one
386
00:17:11,484 --> 00:17:15,986
of the focuses is those mesophotic ecosystems. Yep, yep.
387
00:17:15,987 --> 00:17:18,348
How are you thinking they're going to help
388
00:17:18,349 --> 00:17:21,394
us to discover more of Ningaloo reef?
389
00:17:21,395 --> 00:17:24,768
So the overall goal of my PhD is pretty much take
390
00:17:24,769 --> 00:17:27,574
a deeper look at the ecology of these mesophotic reefs.
391
00:17:27,575 --> 00:17:29,872
So do you guys even know what mesophotic is? No.
392
00:17:29,873 --> 00:17:33,668
We would love an explanation just to clear it up.
393
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:35,988
So, yeah, a mesophotic habitat is a tropical or
394
00:17:35,989 --> 00:17:39,892
a subtropical, light dependent environment that occurs from about
395
00:17:39,893 --> 00:17:42,602
30 meters deep, down to lower photic zone.
396
00:17:42,603 --> 00:17:46,632
So it's a low light environment, but there
397
00:17:46,633 --> 00:17:48,808
still is light, but it's not very light.
398
00:17:48,809 --> 00:17:50,942
And if you look at the word mesophotic, meso
399
00:17:50,943 --> 00:17:54,580
means intermediate, and photic means light; intermediate light.
400
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:58,204
It's pretty much characterised by the
401
00:17:58,205 --> 00:18:01,154
presence of still having photosynthetic corals,
402
00:18:01,155 --> 00:18:03,954
but they aren't dominant.
403
00:18:03,955 --> 00:18:05,628
They are there, and there's enough light for
404
00:18:05,629 --> 00:18:07,986
them to grow, but they aren't dominant.
405
00:18:07,987 --> 00:18:09,788
A lot of other invertebrates tend to
406
00:18:09,789 --> 00:18:12,610
take over, such as sponges, filter feeders,
407
00:18:12,611 --> 00:18:15,008
algae takeover, and then corals are still
408
00:18:15,009 --> 00:18:16,886
there, but they're definitely not the dominant.
409
00:18:16,887 --> 00:18:20,528
Right, okay. So why did you
410
00:18:20,529 --> 00:18:22,810
want to study those ecosystems?
411
00:18:24,830 --> 00:18:27,108
Mesophotic ecosystems globally are
412
00:18:27,109 --> 00:18:28,122
pretty much understudied.
413
00:18:28,123 --> 00:18:30,212
It's only been within the last decade or two
414
00:18:30,213 --> 00:18:32,010
that have actually got a bit of attention.
415
00:18:32,011 --> 00:18:35,572
And one of those reasons is the fact
416
00:18:35,573 --> 00:18:38,088
that with the advancements in technology, we do
417
00:18:38,089 --> 00:18:40,152
have things like ROVs now, which can actually
418
00:18:40,153 --> 00:18:42,152
survey these habitats in a cost effective way,
419
00:18:42,153 --> 00:18:44,150
because previously it's been quite expensive.
420
00:18:44,151 --> 00:18:46,536
It's too deep for scuba divers to go down,
421
00:18:46,537 --> 00:18:48,648
but as soon as you start getting more people
422
00:18:48,649 --> 00:18:50,866
and more equipment, everything gets more expensive.
423
00:18:50,867 --> 00:18:53,394
So now this stuff is readily available, it's
424
00:18:53,395 --> 00:18:54,988
much more cost effective to actually get out
425
00:18:54,989 --> 00:18:56,828
there and we can survey them.
426
00:18:56,829 --> 00:19:00,242
But the research in the mesophotic
427
00:19:00,243 --> 00:19:02,198
sort of industry is very patchy.
428
00:19:02,199 --> 00:19:04,368
So some areas have a lot of research.
429
00:19:04,369 --> 00:19:07,568
So areas such as the Atlantic and in particular
430
00:19:07,569 --> 00:19:10,228
the Caribbean have so much research that they can
431
00:19:10,229 --> 00:19:14,130
make generalisations, they can make informed management decisions.
432
00:19:14,131 --> 00:19:15,458
However, areas such as the Indian Ocean
433
00:19:15,459 --> 00:19:18,106
still remain relatively understudied.
434
00:19:18,107 --> 00:19:21,330
And in particular, Ningaloo itself
435
00:19:21,331 --> 00:19:24,292
has minimal mesophotic work.
436
00:19:24,293 --> 00:19:27,688
The past Ningaloo Outlook and WAMSI node, which
437
00:19:27,689 --> 00:19:31,816
is the WA Marine Science Institution, were two
438
00:19:31,817 --> 00:19:35,628
large projects which actually consisted of most of
439
00:19:35,629 --> 00:19:38,330
the mesophotic research that has occurred.
440
00:19:38,331 --> 00:19:40,642
Although a lot of this research just focused
441
00:19:40,643 --> 00:19:46,092
on mapping and identifying these habitats, looking at
442
00:19:46,093 --> 00:19:48,306
the patterning and distribution of these habitats.
443
00:19:48,307 --> 00:19:50,854
And they did sort of touch on coral recruitment.
444
00:19:50,855 --> 00:19:52,288
And this is mainly because of an
445
00:19:52,289 --> 00:19:55,894
idea called the 'Deep Reef Refugia' hypothesis.
446
00:19:55,895 --> 00:19:58,048
So this idea that these deep reefs in
447
00:19:58,049 --> 00:20:00,912
the mesophobic habitat, which do have corals, are
448
00:20:00,913 --> 00:20:05,162
somewhat sheltered from environmental effects, such as storm
449
00:20:05,163 --> 00:20:07,418
events or climate change or even human effects
450
00:20:07,419 --> 00:20:08,602
because they're a bit deeper.
451
00:20:08,603 --> 00:20:11,305
So there's this idea that because they're somewhat an
452
00:20:11,306 --> 00:20:14,008
insurance population there, they're intact still, that
453
00:20:14,009 --> 00:20:18,104
they can actually reseed the population, they can
454
00:20:18,105 --> 00:20:24,710
actually reseed the shallow population and actually help
455
00:20:24,711 --> 00:20:28,354
replenish the damaged coral reefs.
456
00:20:28,355 --> 00:20:30,348
But it's quite a debatable topic and
457
00:20:30,349 --> 00:20:33,042
it relies on something called vertical connectivity.
458
00:20:33,043 --> 00:20:35,452
So how connected the shallow to the deep is
459
00:20:35,453 --> 00:20:38,674
and it relies on the recruits, the little tiny
460
00:20:38,675 --> 00:20:41,346
corals being able to get from deep to shallow.
461
00:20:41,347 --> 00:20:44,448
So the Ningaloo research actually suggests that that's not
462
00:20:44,449 --> 00:20:47,404
very likely, but it's a pretty interesting topic and
463
00:20:47,405 --> 00:20:50,528
that's another reason why the mesophotic sort of getting
464
00:20:50,529 --> 00:20:52,164
a bit more attention because there's a potential that
465
00:20:52,165 --> 00:20:55,562
it might better help these somewhat damaged areas.
466
00:20:55,563 --> 00:20:58,084
But one of the consensus sort of in
467
00:20:58,085 --> 00:21:00,548
the industry is that it's sort of a
468
00:21:00,549 --> 00:21:03,040
locational or a species specific thing.
469
00:21:03,570 --> 00:21:06,346
So it depends on the location or the species.
470
00:21:06,347 --> 00:21:08,318
The species got to be a general species
471
00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:10,850
that can go in both deep and shallow areas.
472
00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:13,368
But I do want to know just because of that
473
00:21:13,369 --> 00:21:16,332
lack of research at Ningaloo, is that kind of why
474
00:21:16,333 --> 00:21:18,680
you wanted to join the Ningaloo Outlook project?
475
00:21:20,570 --> 00:21:25,602
It was just pretty much a perfect opportunity to join.
476
00:21:25,603 --> 00:21:28,124
I thought it was almost like
477
00:21:28,125 --> 00:21:29,564
a once in a lifetime opportunity.
478
00:21:29,565 --> 00:21:32,144
Working with a company such as CSIRO, it's a
479
00:21:32,145 --> 00:21:34,576
huge backing and also being involved in the project
480
00:21:34,577 --> 00:21:37,530
such as Ningaloo Outlook which is backed by BHP (now Woodside).
481
00:21:38,430 --> 00:21:39,728
I'm pretty lucky to be in this
482
00:21:39,729 --> 00:21:42,998
position and I personally, I love Ningaloo.
483
00:21:42,999 --> 00:21:44,468
I go up there for holidays, I've been up there
484
00:21:44,469 --> 00:21:48,084
before, I've had experience up there with some uni
485
00:21:48,085 --> 00:21:49,880
projects, as well as my honors project
486
00:21:49,881 --> 00:21:52,276
were all up there so I thought the perfect chance to
487
00:21:52,277 --> 00:21:55,092
actually do something that I love and in some way that
488
00:21:55,093 --> 00:21:59,492
already have kind of half an idea of what I'm doing.
489
00:21:59,493 --> 00:22:00,452
Definitely.
490
00:22:00,453 --> 00:22:02,080
Oh that's so cool.
491
00:22:03,170 --> 00:22:05,316
We are all done.
492
00:22:05,317 --> 00:22:07,804
Thanks so much for talking with us.
493
00:22:07,805 --> 00:22:08,908
That's all good.
494
00:22:08,909 --> 00:22:11,960
Thanks having me guys, thank you so much.
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2. Turtles can travel over 1000 kilometres to nest at Ningaloo
The team of researchers studying Ningaloo's deep and shallow reefs as part of the Ningaloo Outlook program have attached satellite tags to more than 45 turtles to follow their travels. This has revealed new information about the lives of the turtles in the region.
"What we’ve discovered is there are turtles that live in Ningaloo and that’s home, they just live there, and they leave Ningaloo only to go and nest," Mat said.
But Ningaloo is also one of Australia’s important nesting areas. Turtles come from a very wide area of Western Australia to nest at Ningaloo. Using the satellite tags, the team has tracked nesting turtles from Ningaloo covering south to Shark Bay and north to the Kimberley.
"They’re coming from more than 1000 kilometres away to nest at Ningaloo. But the turtles that live at Ningaloo don’t tend to nest at Ningaloo. They leave, and they go and nest in the Pilbara," Mat said.
3. Turtles grow slowly
Ningaloo Outlook researchers have also attached flipper tags to more than 400 turtles at Ningaloo. By recapturing some of those individuals, Mat and the team have discovered new insights.
Some of these turtles have been particularly memorable.
"There are some really cool ones, like this one [see image above] we caught in 2017 in the water at Ningaloo," Mat said.
"Turns out that tag, when we traced it back, had been put on the turtle while it was nesting at Barrow Island in 1987, so that was 30 years earlier.
"It was already 97 centimetres when it was nesting, so it was an adult female when it was nesting. And then 30 years later we found it still living in Ningaloo. So it’s an old, old turtle. In 30 years, it grew 1.5 centimetres."
There’s also one unadventurous turtle the team have caught four times in the past eight years.
"It just lives in this one place at Ningaloo and when it hears the boat coming, it must groan and go, come on!" Mat said.
"It’s grown 4.5cm in 8 years, from 55cm to just about 60cm."
Ningaloo Outlook is a strategic marine research partnership between CSIRO and Woodside Energy.