0:00
So today it's my absolute pleasure to introduce the people on the call.
0:06
(Somebody's popped off mute)… the people on the call.
0:11
So I have Chris Rowland who's the CEO of Hadean Energy, Jose Orellana who's the facility manager of the hydrogen tech demo Facility, Karen Kozielski who's the deputy lead of the hydrogen Industry Mission, and Claire Jordan-Peters who's the comms manager for the Hydrogen Industry Mission.
0:30
So a little bit about the Hydrogen Technology Demonstration Facility or HTDF.
0:36
So this is a facility in Clayton that CSIRO has developed in order to give Australian businesses, start ups, and small medium enterprises, a place that they can test hydrogen technologies.
0:53
So physical hydrogen devices. You can see behind me some of this is a picture of the inside of it.
0:59
We have a series of bays that are slightly larger than a car space, and clients and collaborators are able to bring their hydrogen devices into this facility in order to be able to test them in a place that's safe, that has the balance of plant.
1:19
And Jose’ll talk a little bit about the some of the technical features of the facility.
1:25
But they can bring the device in, they can test it, they can get some guidance from CSIRO staff.
1:29
The can the test can be conducted in a safe way in a controlled environment.
1:34
And it can help those start ups, those companies advance the technology readiness level, advance the maturity of that technology, gives them a place to be able to run tests with their equipment and demonstrate its effectiveness.
1:51
And we, we've hosted all manner of different hydrogen technologies in the facility.
1:56
So they might be hydrogen production technologies, electrolysers, that kind of thing.
2:01
They might be hydrogen processing or gas splitting technologies.
2:06
They might be hydrogen storage technologies.
2:09
And right through to hydrogen utilisation technologies. We hosted a, a micro turbine that ran on hydrogen in one of the early projects in the facility.
2:19
So it's a pretty flexible facility and we're able to adapt it to, you know, specific needs of clients in order to give them a safe and suitable environment to conduct their tests.
2:33
So the order of today.
2:35
First up, I'm going to throw over to Jose, who's the facility manager of the HTDF and he's going to give you a quick technical rundown, I guess of how we how we set the facility up, what some of the what some of the technical features of the facility are and how, how it kind of works with clients coming in and connecting their equipment up.
2:59
So I might throw over to you, Jose.
3:02
Thank you, James.
3:02
Good morning, everybody.
3:04
Welcome to the Hydrogen Technology Demonstration Facility, or HTDF, at CSIRO in Clayton.
3:11
Now, while I hoped to present this to you from inside the facility itself, I'm speaking to you from the office today.
3:18
But I'll do my best to bring the HTDF to life for you over the next few minutes.
3:25
So hydrogen technologies, they face real barriers, not so much in the lab, but in transition to the real world.
3:32
And that's where the HTDF comes in.
3:36
This facility was transformed to help developers move faster to test, trial and demonstrate hydrogen technologies safely in a real industrial environment without having to build it all from scratch.
3:52
Safety is foundational here.
3:55
Every bay is fitted with hydrogen sensors, alarms and an engineered venting system.
4:01
We did not just add safety.
4:03
We have built it into the bones of the facility and every project is supported by a structured HAZOP and hazard process facilitated by CSIRO experts.
4:15
So alongside safety, we have the infrastructure.
4:20
So we've got the usual, we've got the pipe gases, we've got the RO water and obviously we have power.
4:26
Alongside that.
4:27
We also have cryogenic capabilities.
4:31
Everything's ready so you can focus on your technology, and you won't be doing this alone.
4:37
Myself, our engineers and tech staff are here to support each step for your setup and operation.
4:44
This isn't a concept facility.
4:47
It's in use right now.
4:48
As James said, we've hosted clients working on electrolysis, hydrogen purification, we have refuelling and even hydrogen mobility projects.
5:00
They come here because they can move quickly, de-risk and build credibility in front of stakeholders who matter.
5:09
So if you're looking to showcase your hydrogen technology in a real safe and supported environment, HTDF is open.
5:17
We're here to help you demonstrate, de-risk and deliver.
5:21
Thank you for joining us today. James.
5:25
Thank you very much, Jose.
5:27
Excellent.
5:28
And as I mentioned, we've got and shows at the pictures here, we've got a whole range of I guess the balance of plant type infrastructure in the facility and can it's been designed.
5:42
You can have a look at the hydrogen vents over the right.
5:44
It's been designed with a whole range of different flow rates uses in mind from from smaller projects to to larger ones.
5:54
So we've worked hard to make this facility as flexible as we can to deliver the best value that we can for our clients.
6:04
So I'm going to hand over to Chris Rowland now.
6:07
So Chris is the CEO of Hadean Energy. Hadean are developing a high temperature electrolyser technology.
6:14
And Chris is very kindly offered to join us today to talk about the experience of his company interacting with the HTDF.
6:24
And then after Chris, we'll go to Karen who will talk a little bit about the how those interactions work.
6:32
How do you start?
6:33
So thank you, Chris, over to you.
6:37
Thanks, James.
6:38
And yeah, look, thanks for the opportunity to speak today.
6:41
I suppose it's, you know, it's been really beneficial for Hadean to work with the hydrogen tech demonstration facility and the CSIRO over the last sort of 12 months.
6:54
So the background of our technology, you know Hadean and as James said is a high temperature electrolysis company where commercialising a technology developed by the CSIRO originally.
7:06
So perhaps talking our own book a little bit here. In the middle of last year, we were at the stage where we had our our first modular electrolyser unit ready to go.
7:19
And we wanted, we were looking around for something to demonstrate that.
7:23
And there might be people in this call who who have been through a similar experience or are getting to that stage where you've got your first unit.
7:31
It's no longer lab scale, but it's not quite ready for, you know, a commercial site.
7:37
And we spoke to a lot of different potential commercial partners.
7:41
But getting electrolyser production technology to work on an industrial site, there's a lot of hoops to jump through, a lot of stakeholders involved, a lot of requirements around safety, but then also just around getting people to understand that, you know, it's only relatively small and low risk, but taking people on that journey can be quite time consuming and challenging.
8:06
And that's where we were introduced to the team.
8:08
So Patrick and Karen and Jose at the hydrogen tech demonstration facility.
8:14
And basically it was the solution to our problem.
8:19
So what the process that you actually go through, we sort of held an initial conversation.
8:25
This is what we're looking to achieve.
8:27
We've got our modular unit, we want to come in, test it, actually produce hydrogen in a safe environment.
8:34
Jose and the team sort of, you know, engaged with us in that process.
8:38
What's that going to going to look like?
8:39
What work needs to be done at the facility, you know, are there contractors involved, all that type of thing really facilitated well by the team.
8:47
And we went through the whole HAZOP process.
8:50
Again, that was facilitated by, you know, an accredited CSIRO HAZOP facilitator.
8:57
Yeah, I can't really speak highly enough of the process, just that ability to work together, but also with people who understand the industry and understand what hydrogen production, but also what prototyping can be like.
9:12
You know, it's never a straight line from here to there.
9:15
There's a few twists and turns sort of as you go.
9:18
So being able to work with the CSIRO team on that was really, really important for us.
9:24
So essentially what happened is we we moved in, we got one of those bays, one of that, as James said, you can sort of see behind him and, and you can actually see in some of the pictures here, we didn't have the unit, you know, completely built at the time.
9:39
So we actually got to do some of the the assembly work and the sort of integration work with the team, you know, using the electricians, plugging into those vents as well and making sure that all our safety systems were verified and working with with the group there.
9:59
And we then successfully demonstrated one of the world's first tubular solid oxide electrolyser technologies, which was fairly exciting for us and really a great thing to do with the team at CSIRO.
10:11
Couple of other benefits that I'd like to sort of bring up about working in that space, you know, yes, everything is there.
10:20
Like you can see in the bottom left picture, we've got access to water, demin water, things like that, that we could just plug in, make make sure that they were working there.
10:29
You can see in the bottom right hand side or and, and top right hand side the television screen as well.
10:37
So we could put up presentations when we had people coming through as part of the hydrogen tech demonstration facility as well.
10:44
CSIRO works really closely or works broadly I guess across industry.
10:49
So a lot of different delegations come through.
10:53
So you know, our technology, our demonstration was there visible to different groups who are interested in that green hydrogen/ e-fuels /syngas type of economy.
11:05
So getting that exposure was great for us.
11:07
We've made some really good connections as part of that, you know, for for future capital raises as well.
11:13
So really, really beneficial.
11:16
I know that there was an Engineers Australia event that was held in there as well and having our technology on display as a real world thing that people could have a look at was was really, really useful.
11:30
Other benefits, I mean, there is a hydrogen BBQ at hydrogen tech demonstration facility.
11:35
Not that we've ever had a chance to run it yet, but I'm sure Jose will give us the opportunity at some stage.
11:41
And the other one that I would mention, well, actually before I mentioned that the the last benefit I might go to the things that could be improved if you do move into this facility, it can be very, very cold in winter to make sure you've got good jackets.
11:58
But look, the, the other part of it is obviously there's a cost to using a facility like this.
12:03
What we did is we applied for a grant through the CSIRO Kick-start.
12:08
Now they've got grants of up to $50,000 to sort of help out with, you know, things like access to the hydrogen tech demonstration facility and also access to other CSIRO researchers and things like that.
12:21
So overall great experience, happy to take questions on it as well.
12:26
I'll finish up there and pass it back to James.
12:30
Fabulous.
12:31
Thank you very much for that, Chris.
12:32
And good reminder about questions.
12:35
So I and, and good segue over to Karen.
12:38
So if you have questions that you'd like the team to, to address, we're aiming to have a bit of time at the end to talk through those.
12:46
So remember to pop them in the chat is the easiest way and we're we're monitoring that and try and get to them.
12:52
But yeah, it was a good segue.
12:54
Thank you, Chris, to, to what Karen's going to talk about with a bit of her experience for and of how startups, if you think you've got a, a technology that's going to be relevant and would be a good fit for the facility, how's that process actually go and what support is there available?
13:14
So I'll throw throw over to Karen.
13:17
Thanks, James.
13:19
Yeah.
13:19
So I think Jose and Chris have already covered quite a lot for the important points here.
13:25
But basically the the facility was built to, you know, CSIRO has a long history of taking new technologies all the way through to commercialisation.
13:37
And we recognise that that was going to be one of the stumbling blocks, one of the problems for other startup companies who were trying to bring those technologies through to commercialisation.
13:51
And so with our facility, we realised that there was an opportunity to offer this common use infrastructure.
14:00
So we started working with a with a number of of startups.
14:04
And as Chris has explained, the first part was to actually meet with the clients to figure out what it is that they wanted to achieve, work through what is possible, all of the safety issues, work out the the price of doing that demonstration and then move through to contract and delivery.
14:31
One of the other things that we recognised is that you know, finances is can be a problem for small companies and this is where our SME Connect team come in very useful, particularly with the Kick-start grant which a couple of our clients have been able to access, which also helps to fund that demonstration opportunity.
14:57
Also as Chris mentioned, there are lots of different groups that come through that facility.
15:02
So there is an opportunity to for that, for that technology to be on display when the different people come through.
15:13
I think that's about all we have to say really unless there were any specific questions that people wanted to ask.
15:19
I can see that there is one here in the in the chat about the facility being self contained.
15:34
I'm not sure I understand.
15:35
So, so yes, the facility has it has the the demineralized water, it has the electricity.
15:45
I'm not sure I understand the size of the demo electrolyser.
15:49
I think the ones that we've had so far have been around the two kilowatt.
15:55
Is that correct, Jose?
15:58
So far, yes, yes.
16:03
I think if it, if it's a question about what power supply options are there to the bays, I think we've got three phase power to the bays.
16:15
Jose, do you remember what off the top of your head what what's the, the power supply options are like?
16:22
We have single and three phase power and we've got an abundance of Amperage.
16:28
So it won't be an issue for each bay 300 I think for each individual bay.
16:37
Yeah.
16:37
Thanks Jose.
16:38
And in terms of is there a maximum output of electrolyser technology, If somebody came to us with an electrolyser, what's the maximum?
16:47
Are we going to hit some sort of limitation on the venting or the disposal of those or are we venting is again quite large.
16:56
We don't think, well, I think if you're venting that much hydrogen you'd, you'd want to look at capturing that hydrogen.
17:05
No, probably the only limitations will be how little hydrogen you are producing.
17:13
But there's there are the venting is, is we believe is adequate for a lot of the technology currently on the market.
17:21
Yeah, nice.
17:23
And we also do, we also have an afterburner technology for disposal of other gases or, or chemicals.
17:32
Yeah, yes, we do.
17:33
We, we do have a afterburner.
17:35
It is on the other side from that picture which is currently on the screen.
17:38
Yeah, that gets used quite a bit as well.
17:41
So we also have something like 15,000 metre cube per hour extraction unit, which again, I, I don't think we'll be utilising, but it's, it's quite a lot.
17:53
So the facility is coded for a number of projects both small and and large.
18:01
Yeah, fabulous.
18:02
Thanks Jose.
18:03
There's a question around regulatory compliance to be met when starting, you know, testing a new technology.
18:14
So Jose, would you be able to talk through the process about it?
18:18
You know, if somebody comes to comes to CSIRO with the technology, what's the process we go through in terms of I guess both regulatory compliance, but also compliance with CSIRO’s health and safety requirements.
18:30
So to start with CSIRO requirements, obviously electrical equipment needs to be tested and tagged.
18:40
That's something that we look at.
18:41
Obviously individuals that come through their projects that come through here would need to go through a, an induction process and that includes everybody that steps into that building alongside that in, in terms of regulatory process, if it's new technology, there won't be any regulations.
19:05
But the first project we had in here, if I can talk about the Lavo Hess unit, they, they required regulatory compliance to sell that unit in, in, in, in, in Victoria at least.
19:19
So we were able to help them get all the regulators in place.
19:25
There were a lot of government officials coming through the building and looking at this Lavo unit, not knowing what they were looking at.
19:33
So because the unit was it was at a demonstration purpose here at the facility, they were able to come in, they were able to look at it, poke around at it and in essence allow them to, to give an idea of, of what the technology that's coming up in the future.
19:51
So yes, the regulators were able to look at it and they were able to give Lavo Hess has their regulatory compliance to sell this product in Victoria.
20:02
Every state is different when it comes to gas and the type of gas.
20:06
So please keep that in mind.
20:08
But yes, we, we, we do assist companies who need that, that compliance.
20:16
Yeah, perfect.
20:17
Thanks, Jose.
20:19
And then that, that's all part of the.
20:21
I guess the pre work before people get started in here is we work the CSIRO team went very closely with the with the businesses that are coming in here to make sure that they're, you know, that their equipment is safe and suitable and we'll be able to operate in a in a safe manner.
20:39
So I can see a few other questions and thank you very much for throwing the questions in the chat.
20:46
Can the facility be used for liquid hydrogen testing or only gaseous hydrogen testing?
20:50
That's an interesting question, Emma.
20:51
We, we actually have a liquid hydrogen or a hydrogen liquefier, I should say that is a CSIRO piece of equipment that we are developing some of our own technology around.
21:05
So yes, absolutely we, we have expertise in liquid hydrogen.
21:10
So and we're, we're looking actually at the moment and developing that a little bit further so that we could potentially supply liquid hydrogen if required to, to these projects in the future.
21:24
That's not something that's available at the moment of supply of liquid hydrogen.
21:27
But if you had a hydrogen liquefier that you wanted to demonstrate, absolutely I think we could, we could accommodate that.
21:37
Claire or Karen, am I missing any questions here?
21:41
Yes, there was an important question from Adriana around what are the pathways for external researchers or companies to access these facilities.
21:51
I might throw that one to Karen.
21:52
Thanks, Claire.
21:53
Yeah, so I guess I'm probably the the first point of of contact to yeah, to facilitate that.
22:04
And then I would speak with Jose, we'd, we'd look at the technical requirements of being able to actually deliver on whatever the request is.
22:19
Did we pop the, the contacts in the chat, Claire, or is that on the website that we've put a link to there?
22:29
But yeah, it'd be reaching out to the CSIRO team and we, we'd talk you through it.
22:32
And sorry, Claire, I think you're on mute if you're trying to talk to me.
22:43
This question about is the facility able?
22:46
Oh, thank you.
22:46
Fabulous.
22:47
Thanks, Claire.
22:49
Is that facility able to connect multiple stacks for conducting research on scaling up hydrogen electrolysers?
22:57
I think it's worth a conversation with the team.
23:02
That's a yeah, we'd have a look at the technology.
23:07
We are able to supply a fair bit of power to these bays and vent a fair bit of hydrogen.
23:13
So it's worth the conversation.
23:15
Absolutely.
23:19
There's a question about hydrogen embrittlement.
23:25
I think on that question, CSIRO has a lot of material scientists and people working on all aspects of, you know, material performance, you know, embrittlement, corrosion, that kind of stuff.
23:41
So I think if you've, if you've got questions around hydrogen embrittlement, I think reach out to the, the team here and we'll, we'll do our best to, to put you in touch with the right researchers.
23:54
I don't think we conduct hydrogen embrittlement experiments in this facility.
23:59
This is more of kind of a, a facility that's around providing a place that people can run their equipment and demonstrate its effectiveness.
24:09
But there'd be other groups in CSIRO that would be able to help with that.
24:12
That kind of question.
24:17
Have I missed any other questions?
24:24
I think Claire's done a nice job of answering a few of them in the chat.
24:30
Is the facility open to working with foreign companies or research institutes?
24:33
Yeah, absolutely Max.
24:38
You know, we, we did size it with a focus around small medium enterprise, Australian small medium enterprise because that was a key focus of CSIRO’S Hydrogen Industry Mission was how to how to advance Australia's hydrogen industry and support, support new players and support that industry generally.
25:02
But absolutely now we're we're we're absolutely open to working with other other research institutes, other companies, definitely.
Rao's asking about have we engaged with an engineering design company for the design of the demonstration plant.
25:28
So the demonstration plant will be brought to us by our collaborators, our clients and we'll we'll have a look at their equipment and the design of that equipment.
25:41
Often they will have had that engineering design company, you know, worked hand in hand with them with with the design around it.
25:48
But if there are things that are missing on that technical engineering certification compliance kind of side, we can help identify those and, and even help facilitate some of those discussions as part of the, the risk assessment and the, the assessment to make sure that the, the equipment will meet our, our requirements.
26:09
I always got a question about high temperature fuel cell testing.
26:12
I think I might throw it to Jose quickly.
26:14
I know we're, we're heading towards time slightly.
26:17
We have done quite high temperature things in here, haven't we, Jose?
26:21
So do you have an observation?
26:25
Yes, again high temperature testing it we've done a lot of it not, not a problem.
26:29
We, we don't do much fuel cell testing in, in the facility.
26:33
There are there is another team or group that that can facilitate with that as well.
26:39
But the facility this hydrogen tech demo facility not, not so much fuel cell testing.
26:47
Yeah, fabulous.
26:47
Thanks, Jose.
26:48
I think reach out to those those same people that Claire's got on the screen there.
26:52
If it's not, if this is at least not the perfect fit for the technology or what you'd like to achieve, we'll be able to find the the right people to put you in contact with.
27:03
So thank you very much everybody for joining us.
27:05
So we've hit time.
27:06
So feel free to feel free to drop off at any point from here.
27:12
Please reach out to to Jose or to Karen if you you're interested in following up or learning a little bit more about the facility.
27:19
I think Karen might have a little bit of time if you'd, if you'd like to stick around and ask a few more questions.
27:27
But thank you very much for joining us today.
Safety: CSIRO has a team of experts available to help design your demonstration safely and facilitate the HAZOP process to ensure compliance with our stringent safety protocols.